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Stock cracking. It could be the stockmaker.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by gun fitter, Apr 23, 2012.

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  1. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I just got a job from a customer of mine to make a new stock to fit a mx 2005 rib height.

    He had a stock that was made by a competitor for an RS ribbed Mx 2000 that he wanted to use for a pattern. Well I didn't build the stock for the RS gun. It was built right after my wife passed and I wasn't doing a lot of work at the time. Now I can say a lot of good things about the stock but look at the pics of the through bolt hole.
    gunfitter_2008_0303_1387.jpg

    gunfitter_2008_0303_1388.jpg

    gunfitter_2008_0303_1389.jpg

    You can obviously see how the through bolt hole is canted off center by aproximatly 3/8 inch which is a lot.

    now the surprising thing is that the hole in the back of the stock is completely centered in the following pics.
    gunfitter_2008_0303_1390.jpg

    gunfitter_2008_0303_1392.jpg


    THIS IS A RECIPE FOR CRACKING A STOCK!

    Many stockmakers improperly drill the through bolt hole after turning a stock. When this is done there is no consistancy to the bedding of the action and makes properly duplicating dimensions to another stock almost impossible.

    I will be following up with pictures of the process and what is being done to correct the off center hole in the final stock.

    Joe
     
  2. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Heres a pic of the drill used to show the ofset in the pics so that you know that it is streight
    gunfitter_2008_0303_1393.jpg


    Joe
     
  3. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I just got a PM asking me about finishing another maker's semi inlet set.

    If you get one and the throughbolt hole is not centered in the inletting send it back.

    I charge an Additional $150 to recut a centerbolt hole.

    Joe
     
  4. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he wanted lots of cast off?


    dog42.gif
     
  5. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Ahab dumb answer! Look where the hole is in the back of the stock. There was plenty of room to do it properly. Again just a recipe for cracking a stock.

    Pull the action in more on one side than the other and you are stressing on side of the stock unnecessarily.

    I've learned by the school of hard nocks and experience what works and what doesn't.

    Joe Goldberg
     
  6. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Joe ... did you notice the picture below my post?


    It was a joke!
     
  7. Stumpi24

    Stumpi24 Member

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    Show the whole stock and we will know who the artist is. Thanks Stan
     
  8. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Joe, The stock bolt is much smaller than the drill bit and would not follow the same line. The bolt would be at the edge of the hole in the receiver end and be at a stress free position at the other end. I doubt it would be a problem as long as a washer did not force the position of the bolt head in the stock.
     
  9. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Johnny-Actually it will. The larger diameter hole is parallel with the smaller throughbolt hole so if any washer is used it will pull perpendicular to the face of the stock washer. This is one reason why we see so many cracked stocks

    Stan not trying to name names or flame on someone. Just trying to point out that you may get less than you should from some.

    Joe
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Johnny-There is one exception to this; Beretta uses an elliptical washer on its DT-10 and it compensates for the off center holes. Not the case from stockmakerX.

    Joe
     
  11. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Joe, you might get more pressure on one side of the bolt head than the other but there is a lot of wood down in the middle of the stock to cover for that. I would think the pressure at the receiver end would be the same on both sides as long as the inletting is done properly. The bolt doesn't really care where the hole is located. I would guess cracked stocks come more from too much torque on the bolt. I have watched some tighten that bolt like a lug nut and I just shutter.
     
  12. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Johnny did you see that the hole is off center in the front.

    It is a recipe for a cracked stock. Most stocks that are bent eventually crack or loose the bend when a throughbolt is involved. Want to guess why!

    Joe
     
  13. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

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    Good photos Joe. We see this alot here when refinishing stocks and yes it will lead to a disaster. When the hole is not in line the head of the bolt is not setting square or perpendicular to the center of the hole when the stock is tightened it will pull the wood to one side and induce stress in the wood. If the stock is bumped or dropped it will explode like a hand gernade. This hole is done when a stock maker duplicates the stock and then puts the hole in the wood after it is machined. Just my two cents but a good showing of what happens when done incorrectly.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  14. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Obvious to me... Cashed on instead of cast off
     
  15. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    MIA Thanks I haven't stopped laughing.
    Joe
     
  16. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Joe, I see the hole is going through the wrist at a slight angle. But that hole comes out at the receiver end where it should be, in the center of the wood. The bolt will not follow parallel to that hole. As long as there is enough clearance for the bolt it will follow it's normal path through the wrist. Looks like the receiver is centered in the wood with enough wood on both sides. The bolt is probably going through the wrist unimpeded. When the stock bolt it tightened, it will pull the receiver in a straight line toward the bolt head. Yes, there could be more pressure on one side of the stock bolt head than the other but that is down inside the stock where there is plenty of wood to contain the pressure and should be irrelevant. You could hollow out the whole inside of the wrist and eliminate the angle of that hole, the bolt would not care. As long as there is enough sound wood to contain the pressure that stock may never give any trouble. If the stock gets too thin on one side to contain the pressure, yeah, I would agree you could have trouble.
     
  17. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Joe, I see the hole is going through the wrist at a slight angle. But that hole comes out at the receiver end where it should be, in the center of the wood. The only place for pressure is at the stock bolt head. If the washer is loose against the stock bolt head and allowed to tilt, there may not be as much unequal stress as described by Dennis, it could be irrelevant. That stock may never give any trouble at all. Again, I think a lot of the problem comes from people who think you need 80lbs of torque on the stock bolt.
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Put a rocker type washer under the bolt head and you will have no stress from misalignment. For those of you who are not familiar with this washer setup, it's a male female ball and socket part.
     
  19. trapster100

    trapster100 Member

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    Holes are clearance only. I agree though, the bolt head needs to be perpendicular and aligned.

    So, how does one make sure that the bolt head is perpendicular and aligned. How do you measure that in wood? And what are the tolerances? Perpendicular within .002" and a true position of .005" ?
     
  20. Ohio Bob

    Ohio Bob Member

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    It's obvious that Gun Fitter and Dennis have no clue as to what they are doing or talking about.

    Johnny, please let me know your information so that I can have you build me a stock. An expert like you should make a great piece of firewood.

    When we are done, I'll post pictures. Do you do checkering too, or will I have to farm that out?

    OB
     
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