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Stirring the Pot (3 HOLE Targets)

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Pony Keg, Jul 21, 2008.

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  1. Pony Keg

    Pony Keg TS Member

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    What does everyone else think about going back to a three hole target, thrown 50 yards, & 9.5 feet high? Make this manditory. If any club is found not throwing this target setting, they will loose thier privilidge to throw ATA targets for a year.

    Many people we have spoken to would love to see the targets set like this. It might thin out the top of a shoot and the money would not be cut up so bad. The B, C, & D class shooters like me would never know the difference. A hard right on five is still a hard right on five. Don't get me wrong I am not a great shooter but I see the payout sheet and if you have seven 98's, fifteen 97's and so forth the handicap money is cut to pieces.

    I am asking for opinions. I wish there was a way we could all vote on this idea. Please keep the sarcasim to a minimum.
     
  2. Pony Keg

    Pony Keg TS Member

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    Also, The clubs may not have to throw so many shoot off targets saving each club money to be invested elsewhere to improve the club.

    Jeff Warren III
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Go for it and when a top puppy refuses a target it gets scored as a loss unless the scorer calls no target for a legitimate reason ... no more refusals of targets to be allowed.
     
  4. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    My sentiments exactly, I agree totaly with the first three postings and am about the same kind of shooter as the first. I thought about this after shooting last Friday, one race, the singles, in the Western Zone. I broke a 95/100 and got second place in class D. No big deal one way or another. BUT, the targets were so soft that I was able to do so with a gun new to me. 95/100 was well below, I emphasize, well below par for that particular race. An up and coming jr. shooter on my squad ran 100 "easy as pie" with his Seitz, a gun he has shot for 4 years. Great kid, 27 yarder, has run 200 in singles, 99's from the 27, 99's in doubles, and he is only 17 years old. Point: How long will he stay interested in American Trap before we possibly lose him to bunker or sporting clays? When only old guys such as myself find the American Trap target challenging, has not American Trap possibly thrown out the baby with the bath? I wholeheartedly agree with Pony Keg.
     
  5. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Almost every top shooter and great supporter of this sport that I have talked to agree with the changes back to the 3 hole and 50 yard minimum target. - Jim Elliott
     
  6. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    It will not change and will never be made more difficult ... to many people will scream and groan because there scores will drop but in all reality if the ATA was to work a deal to get a cut of sales with all the gun companies, barrel shops and gunsmiths who sell everything in the world to those trying to buy a better score because of there lousy shooting abilities the ATA could make a fortune by making the game more difficult and before ya know it at least the ATA would be financial powerhouse in the shooting sports and we as a group of shooters would be a force to be reckoned with and them dang pink skeeters and lime green sporters would have to give the respect a trapper so deserves because now there sport had been made more difficult but will any of this ever happe?

    Nothing will ever change other than to make the sport easier so why bother even talking about it.
     
  7. Pony Keg

    Pony Keg TS Member

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    well I asked to keep the sarcasim to a minumum. Thanks for the replys Mr Newbius©. All your had to say was that your would prefer to shoot the current target settings. I am sure the ATA may be worried that some people will choose to leave the sport. You are going to loose shooters to attrition anyhow. But I believe the top shooters and most C & B class shooters would rather have a three hole bird.

    We do not need soft easy targets that fly like perfect little lollipops. We need a quality target that will hold a line with good rotation. No disrespect to SKEET but we do not have a hoop for a reason. Is the ATA in a effort to make the game easy and bring in more shooters going to set the machines to manual and just throw the target straight out the box?

    Also, I agree with Newbius about target refusal to a point. What about the failure to fire rule? What if there is a true slow pull. Trap is supposed to be more like Golf in the way a player is supposed to be so honest that they will call a penality on themselve (LOST). It is still the descrition of the referee (score keeper) to have the FINAL SAY. I know in the real world thier will be shooters who will take a free target or bend the rules. Trap is a game of HONOR. Lets try to work together to ensure HONOR is a top priority in trap and instill a strong code of ethics in the youth joining our sport.

    Jeff Warren III
     
  8. harpo_old

    harpo_old Guest

    Not a problem at one club i shoot at they already throw 3 hole targets...
     
  9. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    IMHO-Lots of clubs already throw 3 hole targets and management has no idea what the difference is.Sad but true.The CUSTOMER-in this case the shooter,wants the two hole target-pays for the two hole target-is supposed to receive the two hole target--receives none of the above(not to even mention the doubles targets)--shoots a lousy score in spite of practice because of it--(Shooters practice for years)and we all wonder why the shooters don't return?? In any endeavor it is necessary to give the client what he/she wants.
     
  10. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    re: we do not have a hoop for a reason

    And, the height requirement in trap is measured how?
     
  11. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    I am also for more challenging targets, but I understand that the average shooter my age (62) wants easy targets.

    This is one reason I still shoot Skeet, and drive 140 miles round trip to shoot Bunker at least once a month.
     
  12. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    The best shooters will still win most of the time. Might save on shootoff time and targets. It does not matter to me as long as everyone shoots the same targets what's the diff.
     
  13. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Ya know thinking and considering it I would bet that about 90+% of all shooter wouldn't really notice a change at all and would be surprised to realize a change if it were to happen but that 10% or so would know instantly and would scream as if it was there very first night in prison with there new cell mate and prison husband BIG bubba.
     
  14. Pony Keg

    Pony Keg TS Member

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    Joe Potosky: Trap is supposed to have a T-Bar set @ 9.5 feet. the target is supposed to hit the top of the bar. In skeet they set a hoop for the targets coming out of the house and the targets has to fly thru the hoop every time.

    I believe a lot of venues are throw a 2.5 to 3 hole target anyhow. Who cares. Set all the targets the same period. 40 MPH is just as good as 42 MPH or even 39 MPH lets soften them up a bit so people will get better scores. That's like saying OK lets lower the basket ball rim to 9 feet so we can see more dunks.

    A shooter doesn't pay for easy targets. A shooter pays for consistancy, PERIOD.

    Sure the better shooters will always rise to the top. But instead of ten 98's shooting off or six 200x200 shooting off it will thin the field. THe shooter still has to put the bead on the target. A few will always do it better then others.

    The shooters who instantly notice the 3 hole targets will be the All Americans and most of them have shot the 3 hole and probably won't care what a venue throws as long as everyone has to shoot the same target.

    I say we try the 3 hole bird fo 3 years and see what happens.

    Jeff
     
  15. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    3 for 3 ... now your making ATA sound like Arby's which reminds me ... they have a special right now on there beef and cheddar's and thems are somes good eats.
     
  16. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Personally I'd like to see 60 & 60....as in 60 yds. and 60 mph (yeah folks that's 90 fps).

    While we're at it....

    1 - anyone that records a 100 (and/or 200) in singles in any given year should be moved up to A class as a minimum and back to the 25 yd line until a review in the next target year.

    2 - institute a class for people that are not competitive in their own class. They can play options within that class.

    3 - compulsory money, like in live bird shoots.

    4 - tie breakers from long runs, rear to front as a start....

    5 - place professionals (and we know who they are) in their own grouping.

    6 - rotate the Grand's location yearly.

    7 - Grand American Handicap to be shot by shooter's meeting a set criteria.

    This'll be a good start...for now!

    Curt
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    So instead of having 6 200X200 guys in the shootoffs you would have the same 6 guys at 198X200 in the shootoffs. That is the mathematical reality.

    If the targets are so easy, how come so few people average over 97 in singles?
     
  18. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    If they could narrow it down to a 2 man shootoff we could them crank'em up to five hole for the "BIG" shootoff and be done in one round. Exciting...

    But honestly, I have not been around long enough to really know whats best for the sport and will listen to the advise of the big dogs.
     
  19. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Guys, the 3 hole targets were done before resulting is a dismal failure, the lower classified shooters who get plucked at major shoots only ended up more so, the B shooter's averages ended up in C the c's went to D's etc. it didn't really matter to the accomplished shooters, but the lower classes took it on the chin with many dropping out. Most realized that after plunking down over two thousand dollars in expenses, shooting fees, shells, lodging etc. and walking away with a bunch of 85's in singles and high sixties to low 70's in handicaps and then getting reamed out from mama for shooting so poorly and wasting the families hard-earned money, they just quit, moving on to other games, sporting clays for example where lower scores didn't spell as much disaster. Many will say it doen't make that much difference, yes it does especially when the weather gets nasty, wind, rain, snow etc. I have seen shooters with a 90 average shoot 70 to 80 averages, then quit! The accomplished shooters are always going to be there, the ATA needs all the participation it can get, and the 3 hole target equivilant is not benificial to the less than accomplished shooters!
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Have to give credit to Jeff for clearly stating the major reason why some want to return to wider targets. He correctly explained that more difficult targets result in fewer tie scores and larger pay outs to the fewer winners.

    Some view this as good, others consider it unfavorable and most likely the majority of shooters have little concern about winning money at trap shoots. Wider targets are now legal and if the majority of shooters wanted them, the majority of clubs would throw them. Our experience of a few years ago does demonstrate that most shooters prefer the targets set a little less than a straight away from the corner posts.

    Pat Ireland
     
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