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STI Pistols?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Mike K P, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. Mike K P

    Mike K P Member

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    I currently have a Kimber SIS Pro wich is nice but I'm looking for a full size 1911. I've heard STI makes a nice pistol. Are even their low end like the Spartan a good accurate pistol? Not looking to compete just want a reliable accurate pistol I can put a lot of rounds through. Anybody shoot these? Thanks, Mike.
     
  2. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Ross Carter..... Ross Carter...... Ross Carter.......Ross Carter... I know of what I speak.. Once you start building 1911's you quickly find out.. the difference is quality of parts.. and HAND fitting.. Hand fitting does not come cheaply.. but neither does winning.. It takes the BEST equipment.. lots of ammo.. and lots of practice.. For the difference in cost.. you'll quickly forget the money.. and have a gun that will outshoot you.. STI builds a fine gun.. but the cheaper version is just that.. a cheaper version.. I like their barrel.. but the guts I much perfer the cylinder and slide shop warp speed hammer/sear/disconnect with the Ed Brown sear spring.. Wolfe provides my mainspring and hammer spring.. Micro makes my bushings and I hand lap them.. Need to get the angle correct as its not a round hole..(many don't know that)..Titanium firing pin.. hand fitted firing pin stop.. tuned ejector and extractor.. diamond dust lapped slide.. You can't get this in a $900 gun when the C&S shop hammer set up is over $150.00 If I were you.. and you don't need this leval.. I'd look at the Caspian parts special.. $450.00 for slide/frame kit with most of the parts.. Add a Storm Lake barrel for $75.00 and a C&S hammer/sear/disconnector.. EGW titanium firing pin.. and a few extra parts.. You'll be in for about $850/$900 and have a very high quality gun..If you call Caspian.. ask for Seth.. and tell him Mike sent you.. All Good.. Mike
     
  3. Mike K P

    Mike K P Member

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    Very informative. I'll look into it. Thanks very much Mike. Mike.
     
  4. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    PBB, he says he's not looking to compete! Why push him into a Ross Carter?? Showing off those guns has nothing to do with his question. mikekp, check out a quality used gun. A Kimber, STI, Colt, Para, Taurus, or something you can afford that's proven. They're hard to find now. Obama has scared a lot of people into a frantic buying binge. Next year, you might be able to buy a good 45 for a song. Unless you're going to compete, screw the accurate stuff. Get something dependable for your home domain at 5 yards. 15-20 yards is better, but you know what you can afford.

    A lot of people think they want to get into the 45's till they find out what it cost, how limited their time is, and what it takes to really get competitive. Deal with your own needs.
     
  5. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Setterman.. I said what I did.. because over 50% of the guys I build or went thru.. the $400 economy 1911 ..loved the gun.. but wanted it upgraded.. The Caspian XL kit for $450 I find to be a real bargain.. Factory fitted so all you really need to add is the internal parts..

    Now.. putting all that aside..the Taurus 1911 would probably do just fine..and I like them alot..I've built a few of the Caspian kits..and as I said.. it's a low buck way to get an excellent gun..

    If you look at the photo.. it's really to show a vast array of 1911's I'm putting together.Anything can be made to shoot wonderfully. If you know how to fit things.. It's not hard to get a good 1911.. I get a great deal of joy shooting my 1911's.. A excellent group.. smooth action,excellent trigger makes it all that much better.. For the few extra dollars.. I consider it well spent. You wouldn't want a less than wonderful trigger on your trapgun..why would you settle for less on your handgun?????????

    Most of the cheap 1911's shoot fine.. but by the time you change out the worn or inferrior parts.. you could have just built a good one from the start.. I will tell you.. if you want a good trigger that's crisp and last..you can forget MIM or cast parts.. Yes they all shoot.. Many used 1911's were loose when they came from the factory..

    I did hear the word accurate in the description of what he wanted.. You are right.. I should have asked.. how accurate?? Tin cans at 25 yards.. or 50 yards?? or 15 feet??? Reliable.. you ever break the sear teeth of a cast trigger and have a dead weight in your hand instead of a handgun..you'll never use a cast trigger again.. Like every other firearm.. you need to go inside and see what you have..

    Just by sheer numbers.. I've seen in the last few months almost every kind of screw up a gunsmith??? or the factory can do..Believe me..it's endless..

    Many,many years ago..the 1911 was my passion.. I lost my collection in Katrina..and when I finally was mentally prepaired to replace my collection..I dove back into it.. When the New Orleans police department found out what I was doing.. I was called upon to help replace many of the officers guns they lost.. Police departments from around the country furnished many of the parts.. from "destroyed" guns..This was the biggest "crash course" in building 1911's anyone could ask for. I've played with almost everything..and learned more than I ever thought I would about 1911's..


    Ross has been my mentor when I got in over my head on certain problems.. Here.. we share the names freely of the best gunsmiths we know..That's all I was doing when I mentioned Ross. I don't know if Ross has anything for sale.. or maybe a trade in he's gone thru?? At the very least.. when it comes to 1911's.. or anything on the above list.. I know of no one better than Ross..who I speak to ,that could provide usefull information.. I did not throw this out to impress anyone..It's just what I have learned..


    Let's look at what could happen.. He could call Ross and he has nothing to sell at a price he wanted to pay.. Ross might have exactly what he wants.. and Ross has gone thru the gun.. at a price he did want to pay.. Or Ross informs him of the problems that 2 of the guns on his list has..but is easily corrected.. I don't see anything wrong with the information I provided and I stand by all of it.. Still All Good..


    Anyone reading this can take this information to heart..or quickly throw it away.. I have nothing to sell.. just trying to help a fellow shooter NOT to make the mistakes many people make..and I've have seen or had to correct in the last few months.. Mike
     
  6. k1200ltc509

    k1200ltc509 Member

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    Oh Mike, you needed to throw a paragraph or two in there! LOL My eyes crossed reading this. I would second what he says with the Para 1911 it will out last most shooters! I don't have a moments hesitation if I had to grab it if things go bump in the night. I have several 1911's, never shot an STI but I would say they are ok after examining them! rg
     
  7. Shady Creek

    Shady Creek TS Member

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    "screw the accurate stuff"mmmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so.....Why would anyone want a pistol(any gun) that wasn't accurate??????

    Mike, I like your "style".....GOOD LUCK
     
  8. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    For a production gun, the STI's have been excellent performers and are on par with the Kimber Super Match for accuracy and have been 100% reliable for me. If you're not going planning on competing then a reliable factory gun will probably do the trick. If you get bitten by the bug, then you'll want to step up to custom work.
    My factory STI guns will usually hold 1 - 1 1/4" at 25 yards. The custom SVI PPC gun I had built will do .61" at 50 yards and that's more or less the difference you'll see between production line and custom. Too bad I don't get time to shoot that PPC gun though.
     
  9. bilm67

    bilm67 TS Member

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    I have recently gone through what you are looking at as far as the STI's. STI builds great guns. The one thing you need to be aware of is that the STI spartan is a phllipine made cast frame and slide (similar to the Rock Island guns) that is imported and assembled by STI. They are nice guns, but not the same as the rest of the line. I ended up buying a Stainless taurus and fitting everything myself (including a Nowlin Hammer/sear/disconnector). The reason I went with the taurus is because the frames and slides are forged in the same plant in Brazil as the Springfield parts. After I was done, the result was a very good 1911 with a great 4 pound trigger for a very reasonable price. And as far as accuracy...at 10 yards this gun will tear the centers out of targets.
     
  10. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Bilm67.. That Taurus you shoot is one of the best values on todays market. I find the slide and rails no softer than the original 1911 and are easily tightened up.. but not to tight..(stainless needs more clearance).. and will last a lifetime.. Nowlin is a great company to work worth.. and their parts are well made.. I've used their parts in about 5 of the 1911's I put together with excellent results.. A little stone and a sear jig will yield a crisp/clean 3 pound.. if you ever want to go that light.. Add a titanium firing pin and main spring housing cap and you'll see the results. Add a C&S warp speed hammer.. and you'll also see the difference.

    I also like the S&W 1911 and the Sig 1911..which many of the parts were made here in America by 2 companies we all know and respect.. BTW.. many people laugh.. but I've had good results with the ESSEX frame too..as well as Fusion slides.. When they were $189.00 finished with sight cuts the were used by me to build 40 S&W 1911's.. and 1 Longslide in 357 Sig.. As the sheer numbers got very high..Caspian/Foster made me some very good prices on their frame/slides once I bought in quanity.

    Caspian has a "sale" on over run barrels for the 1911 designed especially for the Caspian XL kit they sell.. At $75.00 they are a great bargain and shoot extremely well.. Yes,Nowlin,Bar-Sto,STI are excellent.. and probably better.. For just a excellent shooter it was not needed.


    Whatever path you take.. you'll have alot of fun.. Which is what it's all about. As you try different things..you'll see first hand what works.. and what doesn't..Sooner or later you'll figure out how and why everything works. BTW.. the Norinco actually performed quite well once the guts were changed out..

    Anything I can do to be of help.. I'm here.. I'm not a Ross Carter..and I will not build a gun for the public..but I'll happily share the little bit I know about 1911's..

    All Good.. Mike By the way.. if this comes out as a big block.. someone please tell me how to make a paragraph here.. thanks Mike
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I have a few custom 1911s and it is really easy to spend $2500 or more when you start adding on all the goodies. But if I were looking for a new full size 1911 it would either be a S&W or SIG. These aren't economy priced guns by any means but they are very well made and shoot/function well right out of the box. Other than that I would get a Caspian slide and frame and build my own from the ground up but this the expensive route.
     
  12. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    PBB, I'd sure like to have you for a next-door neighbor. Damn you have allot of neat stuff.
    A wealth of knowledge and an asset to ts.com.
     
  13. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Caspian slide/frame and many parts $450.. Storm Lake barrel $75.00 .. Pin kit $15.00 .. Springs $15.00 .. sights $100.. recoil spring guide $15.00.. recoil buffer $1.00 .. grips $20.00 .. Mainspring housing $25.00 slide stop and safety $75.00 barrel bushing $10.00.. trigger $20.00.. So for about $800 you can have a really neat 1911.. Now.. for those of you who have a box of parts left over from gun "deals" etc.. this price quickly drops..


    When Foster had a whole bunch of 1911 frames..I was buying them for under $100 each in lots of 6.. and you could have done the same.. $140 each.. buy 2 get 1 free.. Add a Gunbroker.com complete upper for no more than $200.. Add a bag of takeout parts you could buy now and then for under $75.00 and you had a pretty decent 1911 for about $400.. I build over a dozen like that and they not only shot well but were very affordable..and certainly were equal to any regular 45..but fitting the slide and barrel bushing.. tigging up the feet and hood on the barrel and fitting correctly the slide stop made even a "junk gun" quite a shooter..

    At the end of the day.. the crisis this country is in is taking its toll on me.. I enjoy having the diversion.. If your time is worth anything,it might be in your best interest to just buy a gun.. BUT.. if you like the pride in saying.. Yes.. I built it myself.. You might consider what I have proposed..

    All Good.. Mike
     
  14. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Rick.. I've always loved guns.. I love to shoot.. I have not hunted much.. As a child I stammered badly. To get people to not make fun of me.. I had to be the best. I had to do it better than the other guy.. I have always sought out the best people to train me..I'm happy to work for free if I can learn something.. I've never been afraid to spend a dollar to make a dollar.. Tools are important.. but knowledge is KING... I'm a engineer by trade..and have always tried to make things better.. Here.. I enjoy helping my fellow shooters and learning much from many of them.. I'm quick to tell you what I know about.. and quick to tell you what I know nothing about.. Nothing is worse than bad information..

    On another note.. the closest I come to a neighbor who has a passion for guns is about a block away from me.. I'm teaching him how to build his 1911.. He's on a very limited budget.. and other than using my gauges and mikes.. I have not touched his gun..He's building it himself.. He has less than $300 in it.. and probably another $100 to go.. It will be a wonderful shooter.He too started out with a Caspian frame.. and a old military Colt slide..

    It's not about the money..it's about being able to fix your own gun..maybe even making your own parts if you had to.. It's amazing what you can make with a dremil tool if you really had to.. Then if you had a lathe or a mill the posibilities are endless..

    Anyway my friend.. Let me know if I can help.. As I have told many.. you never know when your student becomes your teacher.. All Good.. Mike
     
  15. bambambam

    bambambam Member

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    I have a Spartan it is by far the tightest 1911 that I have ever had.It will shoot under an inch at 50 yards.That is where i sight my pistols in.I also have a Kimber that shoots better than this Spartan but it has has work done to it.This Spartan has a very good trigger pull,no creep and is getting lighter the more it is shot.If I needed another 1911 the Spartan would be my first choice.David
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Where's TRON when you need him..LOL..
     
  17. gr8shot

    gr8shot Member

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    hey bigbore, how much to build a 40 cal in the same configuration?

    thanx.

    steve.
     
  18. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    The 40 S&W that really shoots GREAT..and is an absolute joy to shoot is as follows.. Foster/Caspian frame.. If you catch a blem on sale.. under $150.00

    add to that a Caspian slide cut for Bomar sights.. about $280 and add to that a STI bullbarrel with Comp.. about $260 both thru Brownell..

    a recoil spring guide $15.00 Cylinder and slide shop hammer/sear/disconnect about $150.00 or a EGW hammer/sear/disconnect and titanium hammer spur..about $100

    You'll need a Ed Brown pin and spring kit $15.00 A Fusion target trigger $20.00 Thumb safety and slide stop $50.00 grip safety.. beavertail $30.00 grips $20.00 recoil and sear spring $15.00 The mainspring comes with the Ed Brown pin kit as does the plunger spring and ends..

    You'll need to add to that frame bushings.. and screws $15.00

    You'll need a plunger tube installed $15.00 and a mag. catch $15.00 The parts for the mag catch are in the Ed Brown pin kit.. That's why I buy them.. THEY are complete..


    Add a firing pin and stop.. spring is in the Ed Brown kit.. $20.00 and a mainspring housing $25.00

    All this comes to $1000 plus or minus a little bit for a really #1 gun.. plus the mag.. and sights..

    Now.. if you shop around.. and just want a good shooter and can do a little work.. Caspian frame $150.. 38 Super/9mm slide on Gunbroker.. when one pops up.. $150 and you'll need to open it for the 40 S&W.. barrel.. when they pop up $75. (I bought my STI barrel new for $140).. Mainspring housing,grip safety,mag. release,trigger,maybe even a good hammer,sear,strut and disconnect $75.00 if you wait and shop.. Micro barrel bushing is still $5.00 each.. guy has 100 of them. Pin kit $15.00 grips $20.00 If you get the picture.. you can get the parts for around $500/$550.. but you need to be patient.. and wait.. they will come.. then you'll need to build the gun.. and fit the parts.. You'll have a very acceptable 1911 in 40 S&W.. If you get a 38 Super/9mm barrel.. I have a 357 Sig reamer and can easily convert it for you..without you spending tons of money on the barrel..

    Then.. the Fusion 40 S&W slide is $199/$229 with sight cuts.. I've had excellent results with them too.. If you look in the picture I have 3 of them.. One longslide and 2 regular ones.. All 40 S&W bolt face.. The Longslide is a 6" 357 Sig on a Clark barrel with a Clark ramp.. You'll need to mill the frame for the ramped barrel.. BUT ramped barrels are not needed.. My 9X25 is in a regular barrel with the only cut out being the extractor.. Very little unsupported..and no problems at 1650 fps..or head expansion.

    The 45's are cheaper to build because of many used slides out there.. There are few 40 S&W.. but the 9mm/38 Super slides are easily modified on a vertical shaping head with a single tooth cutter.. You're only talking less than .020 per side..

    I will say this.. because of the cost of the slide and barrel.. most of the 40's I built were done all the way.. and came in over $800

    I will say.. if you reload I make a 357 Sig longneck..which is based on 10mm brass necked down.. longer in main body that a 357 Sig.. but not as large.. hot or fast as the 9X25 Dillon.. Deadly accurate.. no recoil to speak of..and cheap to load after you get over the price of the brass..You use standard 357 Sig dies after you pass the brass first thru a 10mm without the expander..

    The sky is the limit of what you can think of.. or what you can do.. As I said before.. I don't build guns for the public..but if you get a barrel that needs chambering..I would do that for a fee.. as reamers are very expensive. Many of the best target barrels come short chambered so AFTER you fit the hood..you then finish the chamber.. The STI barrels are like this..

    Drop in barrels are rarely made tight.. they are made to fit everything so they are sloppy... OK for garbage cans at 50 yards.. not tin can.. If you get my drift..

    Anyway.. All Good.. Mike
     
  19. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Mike, I got an old civilian Colt with a Bo-Mar sight on it. I know nothing about .45s even though I have owned several...mostly military Remington Rands, and Kimbers, this old Colt is the best shooting 1911 I have owned. Any thoughts about this gun? Biff
     
  20. k1200ltc509

    k1200ltc509 Member

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    Mike, I know that you know that I knew that you knew I was poking fun at you about paragraphs! I am not the smartest as the picture next to box of rocks in the dictionary is Mine! Good to have you back in the mix my friend! It's all in good fun!
    Signed R. Gibbs Paragraph Policeman! LOLX2
     
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