1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Steel based hulls,hurt gun life ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 635 G, Oct 19, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,219
    My guns don't like steel based hulls. When I inquired about using them I was told, to stop using them. They will cause damage if used over an extended period of time. This is why an unamed gunsmith makes alot of money doing fixes on Perazzis & Ljutics.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    I've read steel based hulls don't expand and contract as does brass based hulls. I've used some but I toss them and haven't reloaded any of those. Hap
     
  3. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    929
    I can't imagine where this would be an issue since the steel heads on the hulls are made of MUCH softer steel than the hardened tool steel of most shotgun breech faces and chambers. ....Rick
     
  4. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,939
    This is probably one of the biggest myths out there in the shotgun world. The steel in the receiver and barrel is a lot tougher material than what the hull base is made from.

    That being said, I've got a couple of guns in the safe that don't like steel base hulls. Whether they are new, or reloads(properly resized), they will stick in the chamber. I just attribute them to being like a high maintience woman, nothing but the best will do.

    I'd love to see first hand evidence of wear being caused by steel based hulls. Show me this wear, and I'll make sure that I empty my safe of these guns.

    ss
     
  5. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    If steel was the best thing why weren't shells made using it to start with? Why are only the cheepies using it now? Is there any high "brass" loads made with steel bases?

    Brass is the best material for reasons. Maybe steel is ok in a shotgun but there is no way I will use steel cased ammo in my good handguns or rifles, military rifles that were made to use it fine but not my good guns. This is based on my gunsmiths opinion that I trust.
     
  6. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,524
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Chris Vendel (gunsmith and machinist) shoots Gun Clubs out of his silver seitz. Thats enough of an endorsement for me.
     
  7. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,642
    sliverbulletexpress

    Brass is undeniably the best material for center fire ammunition and for shotshell bases. I've never known anyone to argue otherwise. The best that can be said of steel is it's a marginally adequate substitute for brass in shotshell heads. Steel is less expensive than brass which accounts for it's current and common use in economy priced shells.

    Rio makes a light blue sporty clay shell with a very high steel base. If it isn't a full inch tall, it doesn't miss an inch by much.

    Blazer makes cheap non-reloadable center fire hand gun ammo using aluminum in place of brass.

    sissy
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,420
    I believe the damage is caused by gas leakage from around the primer. I believe the softer brass seals better than the steel. HMB
     
  9. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,435
    Silver, I was recently surprized to find out the majority of the hunting (high brass) Remington shells I've been using for years are a washed brass steel. Would of loss the house in a bet.

    I turn out good 12 ga. reloads with AA's, STS's and Nitro's. Don't like how the steel resizes but, reload some 20 ga. steel bases.
     
  10. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    Well I learned something, I haven't bought any high brass in years, it's surprising they would use steel heads on them.

    Mentioning the Blazer aluminum, at least aluminum is softer. I agree with HMB about the gas leakage. I've seen a few breach faces with a nice circle of pitting around the firing pin hole because of gas leaking around the primer. It's like turning a miniature cutting torch loose.
     
  11. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,736
    Blazer did that to sell ammo....to many folks reloading....that alum ammo has a bad reputation and nobody wants it. They made it for puddle and bank shooters.
     
  12. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,219
    I think HMB has the real reason, just because of this Laib's is doing a breech face repair on Ljutics & Perazzis ( usually high volume shooters)

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  13. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,398
    Phil, Are you sure Laib's is not doing a breech face repair on Remington 3200's and Perazzi's and not Ljutics? That damage repair has nothing to do with the composition material of the hull. It's the effect of the primer backing out and slamming up against the breech face and peening the firing pin hole closed.
     
  14. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,642
    Gentlemen:

    I'm skeptical of premise but let's assume for the sake of discussion that steel headed hulls are a major contributor to the type of breech face damage that Laib's repairs.

    I'm pretty sure Laib's was repairing target guns before economy priced steel headed imported shells (Kemen, Diana, Rios, et. al.) were commonly available. That would suggest Gun Clubs and Top Guns are the only steel hulls around long enough to have potentially been a factor.

    Maybe someone who had Laib's repair a breech face would be kind enough to confirm what type or types of hulls (steel or brass) they shot when the breech face was damaged.

    sissy
     
  15. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,859
    While I shoot Gunclub hulls.. I have seen excelerated wear on a breechface where the rim of the hull drags on the breechface.. If you lighten up the ejector spring.. the wear is much less..
     
  16. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,939
    I see a few of you have slipped in rifles and pistols into this issue. The original posting was for hulls and not brass/cases.

    I can see where there might be issues with rifles and pistols because of the increased pressures. I don't believe this was the issue that the original poster was concerned with.

    ss
     
  17. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,219
    I started this thread, because I shoot a release & have disabled the eject on both of my SBT guns. Sometimes steel based hulls both new & reloads stick & I have to use my knocker outer to remove them. When I called my guns manufacturer he recommended that I stop using steel based hulls & told me about the increased wear factor.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,398
    D.G.Kaufman, Where did you ever get the idea that shotgun shell bases are mostly tin? Tin right now is selling for $7 a lb. Would you believe SAE 1010 rimmed steel the same low carbon steel your auto body panels are made of. Your comparison of barrel/monobloc hardness with a screw driver is meaningless. Everything has a hardness level including pudding.
     
  19. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    292
    I am not sure they would be tin. Tin is now $6.69 per pound, while brass is $3.03. Tin is also not magnetic, while my CG are.

    FWIW "tin" cans & "tin" roofs are mild steel. Sometimes they are plated with tin.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Phil- The steel base shells sticking in your chamber is a totally different situation than steel bases possibly causing excess wear on the breech.

    Some chambers are larger than others. When a brass head shell is fired, the brass expands and then due to its resilience, it contracts to nearly its original size. When a steel head shell is fired, the steel expands but does not contract very much. This is why some shells with steel heads stick in your gun and in mine. My gun will only consistently eject Estates and Top Gun shells. The other brands will often stick.

    The first barrel cut with a new chamber reamer will have a larger chamber than the last barrel cut with the reamer. As the reamer wears, the chambers it cuts get smaller.

    Pat Ireland
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

brass hulls contract when shot