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Statistics on money punch

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by patch, Sep 18, 2007.

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  1. patch

    patch Active Member

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    There must be a lot of shooters that got apunch for money.Pat was supposed to get back with us on this subject.I hope he has some info on subject.Please respond.Would also like to have everyone's opinion on this rule.I have an open mind and would like to know how many people think it is fair and how many people think it is unfair.
     
  2. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    First, I believe getting a money punch is fair and second, I do not believe there are many people who win a lot of money without qualifying for a punch based on the score. However, I think everyone should always get a 1,000 target review and should always be eligible for a reduction based on that review.
     
  3. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I think it is fair. The purpose of the money punch is to award yardage to someone who is playing the 50's option and never takes a punch for his total 100 but cleans up on the 50's. I believe that only once in a blue moon would someone get a money punch but not get yardage from a 96 or better or something from the earned yardage table. I have NO SYMPATHY whatsoever for the guy who shoots a 97 and gets 1 1/2 yards from the money punch where he would only get 1 yard without it.
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    patch- It will take me a few more weeks to get current information on the number of shooters who got a "money punch". I would suspect that we are talking about 1-3 shooters. I do want to wait until after the MO Fall Handicap. That shoot and the Grand is one of the few shoots where a winning score or a score of less than 96 has a chance of winning $750. I just got back from Middletown OH. That shoot is widely known as a shoot where lower score can get a large pay off. There were no money punches at that shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty much in agreement w/ HGWT. I also think a problem with all the complaining about these money punches on here is that many of the responders don't really understand the rule very well.

    I'm not saying the no-reduction rule is no good, just take that earlier example of the 97 winning $1,200. That guy deserved the punch, but not the two year freeze. Maybe the freeze on reductions should be tweaked to specify that money punches will only be subject to the freeze if the score is at least ???

    Patch, what do you say about Pat's response. His numbers seem realistic to me, although lower than I would have expected. I'm not aware of anyone that has received a money punch. Sure it happens, but it can't be as widespread as you make it sound. Do you really know a lot of shooters that are grumbling they're going to quit ATA because they received money punches?

    You must be in an area with some pretty good 50 payoffs and all your friends fall apart on the remaining traps?
     
  6. David J Comroe

    David J Comroe Active Member

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    The information I've seen shows that there were NO money punches awarded during the 2007 Grand. This probably has something to do with the fact there wasn't much money to be won by anyone, let alone someone breaking under a 96.

    There were 2 money punches at the PA Grand and one at the Ohio State shoot that I am aware of.

    -dave
     
  7. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    otnot:

    Sounds like you were one of the handful then. Remember, winning the shoot doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. So you won at least $750 and would not have earned any yardage otherwise?
     
  8. dawg

    dawg TS Member

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    Pat, There was a money punch at Middletown, it was a friend of mine that broke a 94.
     
  9. Littleboots

    Littleboots Member

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    You are incorrect on no punches at the Grand. I shot with a young lady, I believe on Sun. She broke the only mid 50 the day before and received a punch Not knowing the young lady but from talking too her and her efforts I am sure she was trying to break everyone. I believe she was from Iowa she was on 22 and got moved back
     
  10. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    otnot:

    Good shooting, but I didn't ask if you won the shoot, I asked if you would have earned yardsge? At a small shoot they are probably one and the same, but not usually at a shoot with $750 available.
     
  11. Bubba

    Bubba Member

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    2 year freeze sucks. Sure protects the big boys though.
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The number of money-punch caused score-punches can't be known. In other words, the effectiveness of the money punch can never be determined.

    Neil
     
  13. dawg

    dawg TS Member

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    Joe,

    I know the 94 got a 1/2 yard but the $1700.00 that he won is getting him at least another yard. This is not counting the calcutta money.
     
  14. crash46

    crash46 TS Member

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    If you dont know whether or not it even works,Neil, whats it worth?Why have it?

    I still believe that the amateur trapshooters should be allowed to vote on this!!
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    crash46, I didn't say that it might not be working, I just said you can never find out.

    This is, after all, all TS.com's fault, TS.com's very own rule. All that endless bitching that used to go on about people who played the 50's at the Missouri Fall Handicap and got the $$ and not the punch because the dumped some targets to stay under 96, you all remember it don't you? Well, the result was this rule, and since the complaints have mostly quit, it may be working.

    At the 2007 BOD meeting I said:

    "Would anyone like to make a motion concerning the punch for money?" Ten seconds passed and no one said anything, so I moved on.

    That about as open-ended a suggestion as a person can make. No one wanted to re-affirm it; no one wanted to end it - or at least enough, in either case, to suggest it. I was later told that I hadn't given those who oppose it a fair chance but if what I said isn't a fair chance, I don't know what is.

    Neil
     
  16. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    This stupid and punitive rule is just one more nail in the coffin of the ATA. Soon enough, there won't be any sandbaggers- or anyone else for that matter.
     
  17. garage tech

    garage tech Member

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    my brother got a yard for a 95 at the grand this year. I think he played all the options and just made just enough for the yard.
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Ideally, Joe, you get it at the shoot.

    Anon, you may think it is a stupid and punitive rule but it's what TS.com demanded and that's they got it. Take it up with them. Next time maybe they will think whether their proposed cure might just be worse than the disease, if any.

    Neil
     
  19. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Now wait just a minute, Neil. How many times have you preached that nobody pays one bit of attention to anything said on ts.com? You sure have changed your story now. Apparently, now ts.com (whoever that is) makes the rules for the ATA. What a load of BS that is so don't make me laugh.

    Also, how can ts.com demand anything? It's a website, ya know and not a person. Who is the "them" you want me to take it up with? There are probably thousands of participants on this site so exactly which of them would you like me to take it up with? If they now make the rules, exactly when did the BOD of the ATA abdicate in favor of the mythical ts.com?

    Please don't blow smoke up my ass. While I was born in the country, the blessed event didn't occur yesterday.
     
  20. crash46

    crash46 TS Member

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    Garage Techs brother is another perfect example! What about all the people that went back to the 27 and won all the option and added money that they could ,and never had to be bothered with this rule?Is it fair that people that have never won anything should have to be?

    Neil,I have read your replies to some of this stuff,and I believe that you are very honest and sincere!I also believe that deep down you know that this rule is not fair and is not good for trapshooting!

    I want to personally thank you for your time and responses.
     
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