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Static Shooter Growth

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Hauser, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    If the ATA were a business they would be actively trying to understand the reasons for the 17%+ drop in the number of shooters that register targets between 1970 and today.

    Just for the record this is not a back door way of revisiting the 2-hole vs 3-hole debate.


    My concern is while the EC has made several good moves aimed at boosting shooter participation (SCTP and Big 50) come to mind the underlying cause of static to declining growth is not understood.


    I believe the EC has a relatively good handle on how to keep it’s current membership happy however unless it understands the forces that attract shooters and keep them this sport will eventually die off as the relatively small number of shooters that shoot the majority of the targets die off. Example:
    In 2004 14% of the shooters registered 50% of all the targets thrown.


    This number is a wakeup call.


    My suggestion is to go back to the year when shooter participation peaked and record every possible contributing factor. Demographics, the economy, rule changes, pay-off data, punches, etc repeat it for each year through today, then see if there are any definable trends.


    There needs to be as clear an understanding as possible of why shooter participation peaked and what made it decline.


    As stated previously unless the number of shooters increases each year this sport is in a death spiral.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  2. Message_Deleted_Twice

    Message_Deleted_Twice TS Member

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    Jerry it's about time you get a life and stop beating this dead horse to death for the 100th time! As the wanker said, you are playing with statistics again! If you want change, put your time and money where your mouth is and get yourself elected to the ATA board. Otherwise you are doing nothing more than what the guy all alone in a shabby motel next door to the couple bumping uglies is doing!
     
  3. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Another keyboard commando heard from.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  4. Message_Deleted_Twice

    Message_Deleted_Twice TS Member

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    Cranky today ain't we? Just because I disagree with you and your consistent and useless harping on this same subject month in month out. Like I posted above, if you want change get yourself elected to the ATA BOD. It's time to put up or start posting about something else. Or are you nothing more than a sophisticated and skillful fisherman tossing out chum and trolling?
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    He expected an intelligent response. Which is all but impossible from people with very small brains. HMB
     
  6. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Message_Deleted_Twice


    Don't be ashamed or afraid to sign your name it is after all just a discussion forum.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  7. LV Trapshooting Park

    LV Trapshooting Park TS Member

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    Hi Jerry- I have to commend you for trying to do something, but I gave up a long time ago. Over 20 years ago, when a Western ATA Delegate (then moved on to be an Executive Committee member) promoted the soft target to bring shooters to his home state (and club), this was the beginning of the end. It was a bandaid which has now revealed a cancer. Nobody wanted to address it then, and it's too late to address it now. This will run a sorrowful course with an inevitable final collapse at the end. It was a good ride while it lasted, my friend, but the writing is on the wall.

    Meanwhile, why don't you come up to our shoot in a couple of weeks, and we'll have one for old time's sake!


    Steve Carmichael

    Las Vegas Gun Club
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Location:
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    In 1970 my friends and I could hunt small game in our backyards and shoot quarry pigeons until we ran out of money to buy shells. We shot Trap to brush up on our shooting skills.

    Try that today and even if you saw anything to shoot-which is unlikely-you'd be arrested within 15 minutes for carrying a gun. Great future possibilities for growth-isn't it!!
     
  9. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Steve


    Thanks for the words and the invitation.


    I have a heavy work commitment through February so I wont be shooting much before our state shoot the last week in March.


    Hope things are well with you and your family.


    Jerry
     
  10. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Jerry - As Steve said, the time has passed. For whatever reason the current BoD only implements changes that are detrimental to the sport. i.e. changes in the category trophy awards at large shoots. Implementing changes in the
    handicap system that hurts the average Joe. i.e. implementing the so called H category. Worrying about the so called "dreaded sandbagger" etc.

    What the hell do these people think. But alas, look at the leadership in the past few years. Other than Mr. Winston most do not have any adjenda whatsoever. As a recent ATA President told me. The majority of the BoD. and the
    EC, for that matter are totally useless to the sport.

    And replies from individuals like "Message whatever" and many more posters that do not have the courage and/or convictions to print their own names are not really worthy of our time to reply. I guess they are ashamed or, at the very least, non registerred trapshooters, or should I say even trapshooters. - Jim
     
  11. Message_Deleted_Twice

    Message_Deleted_Twice TS Member

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    Jim Elliott, Steve Carmichael, Jerry Hauser, HMB, if you don't like the way they are doing things get yourself elected? If you can't get elected either you didn't try or you do not speak for the majority!
     
  12. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    There is a certain fad element in recreational sports that causes peaks in participation. Tennis went through it as did racquet ball and bowling and we are seeing it in sporting clays now. It is not unreasonable to assume that trapshooting may have enjoyed a brief burst in popularity as well.

    However, our retention rate of new ATA shooters is not good. There are reasons for this that are structural to the sport. I know that some cite a seemingly mystery survey that said that participation drops because of time and money. I have trouble accepting that because of the following rationale:

    No one starts shooting trap by starting to shoot ATA events. Most come to the sport with either an inexpensive field gun or a borrowed gun. They learn to shoot and maybe shoot leagues, games, club shoots, etc. Only after they feel some level of proficiency do they enter a registered shoot. By that time they have already shot a few thousand targets and most likely have invested in a trap gun of their own. They already know what kind of time and money it takes to shoot trap before they shoot their first registered target. By definition then, these people have both the time and money to shoot.

    They aren't finding that shooting registered trap is too expensive or too time consumming, they are finding that shooting registered trap is not worth the time and money they are spending. In short, we are not delivering enough value to way to many newcomers.

    I just did an ATA promo shoot mailing. I took about 100 of the closest geographical names from the ATA Average Book list. Any name I didn't recognize as being a regular shooter I ran though the Shooter Info database. I deleted almost 40 names because they hadn't registered a target in the last 3 years. What was striking was that most of these shooters shot for 2-3 years registering 2000-5000 targets before quitting. These are the people who need to be professionally surveyed and not with just easy out questions like time or money considerations. Lets ask them if they are still shooting non-registered trap or other shotgun sports. Perhaps then we can get some idea of what really causes these people to stop.

    Being a new, but reasonably successful shooter, I have formed some opinions as to the structural aspects of registered competition that induces frustration regardless of ones ability to post good scores. I would like to know if it is these aspects that drops are retention rate so dramatically.
     
  13. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Message_Deleted_Twice


    It seems to me you have several options regarding my posts.


    1) While I may like it my posts are not required reading. You have the ability with the new format to see who started the post so when you see my name on one you don't have to open and read it. This is option 1.


    2) You can continue with your "Your Wrong tirade" and offer nothing in rebuttal.
    I think this is your option of choice.


    3) You can ask to see the data which I will be happy to send you then you can draw your on conclusions and present them on this forum.


    Just for the record I was state delegate for 4 years and served on out state BOD for 14 years so forgive me but I don't need someone who lacks the intestinal fortitude to sign their name to a post to lecture me about getting involved.


    If you need any additional help please let me know.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  14. Message_Deleted_Twice

    Message_Deleted_Twice TS Member

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    Then do it again! If you want change, do it all over again!
     
  15. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    The winner is option number 2.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  16. Message_Deleted_Twice

    Message_Deleted_Twice TS Member

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    I gave you a suggestion!
     
  17. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    I agree as a semi new shooter. It's rather daunting to go to a large shoot and see all the perfect scores being posted. I think that is one reason sporting clays draws the number of shooters that it does. Is there a perfect score in sporting clays? I know "practice"! And I do to the tune of 25,000 rounds a year. Even so, our game has turned into a game of endurance instead of skill. Yes it takes skill to run a 100 now days and it doesn't happen very often in hanicap. But if you look back even 20 years the averages were about 2 targets less than today for the top shooters. How to fix our game is a good question.
     
  18. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    1. URBANIZATION

    Good news! Dick's has a sale on Ammo! Bad News...they also have a sale on Taylor Made drivers! The young American male growing up today doesn't spend his bonding moments with his father in a corn field shooting barn pigeons. He spends Saturdays with Dad on a SUBURBAN GOLF COURSE. No rural heritage. He may "try" trapshooting...but there's no burning urge to stay with it. After all, he broke 90 last week and beat his dad by 5 strokes! (And, have you seen the type of girls who play on the golf team? Yowza...)


    2. DIVORCE

    When that young American male gets married, half of them wind up in divorce. Look at all the single parent homes. How many trapshooters do you see coming out of those arrangements? Divorced mommies living in vinyl villages in the suburbs, generally don't allow their sons to keep guns there. In order for there to be a gun in the house, there has to be a man in the house. And if the boy's gun is at Dad's house, he isn't going out and shooting pigeons in the back yard of his mom's vinyl village house after school every day. He's on the X-Box. (Chances are he's on it when he's at Dad's house, too, because Dad is also a big video game freak).



    Trapshooters in the past came largely from rural families where Mom and Dad were married. I would estimate that half of the potential new trapshooters in America today are being robbed from us by simple demographic factors.
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    The shooting sport in general has done a very poor job with advertising and promoting itself. When is the last time you picked up a local newspaper and noticed an ad for a clubs activities? Or a 'get to know the sport' promotion, consisting of a free round, or two? Occasionally, but rare. Clubs need to start promoting. The 3 to 6 dollar target cost to a club is small compared to the potential financial gain from a league shooter, and possibly a registered shooter.


    When you open a news paper, read a non hunting/shooting magazine, take a ride in your car, turn the radio or TV on,,what do you see and hear??? ADVERTISEMENTS,,for everything BUT shooting and trapshooting.

    I believe a previously mentioned informal poll stated the two top reasons for non-participation were,,time and money. People have only so much hobby time. The shooting sport has allowed OTHER interests to take potential participants from it. People don't knock on the clubhouse door, begging to come in if they have no idea what it's about.

    We need to promote this sport, with emphasis on need to. The current shooters are already familiar with the sport. Most people are not,,and that is our fault,,big time.
     
  20. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    If this was the stock market you would call it a "correction" but no you choose to call it a death spiral. The ATA will reach its own comfort level of members. All organizations have peaks and valleys. The ATA may have peaked and now is in a valley. If you want to spend your time studying mountain charts have at it, as you have no control you will accomplish nothing. Why don't you and your friends enjoy the sport for what it is and let all the other influences adjust the membership to it's comfort level.

    Don
     
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