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state shoot and new categories

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Harold T. Pack, Jul 5, 2012.

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  1. Harold T. Pack

    Harold T. Pack Member

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    Just curious, did your state shoot honor the new categories? Are the new categories mandatory? Are there special provisions for the new categories as there is on page 19 of the rule book. Namely, "When there is no Sub-Junior trophy Sub-Juniors will be included in the Junior category. Senior veterans will be included in the Veterans category when there is no Senior Veteran trophy."

    Keep Your Head Down and Follow Through, Harold T. Pack
  2. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned

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    Harold you know and knew Ohio did not offer the the new categories the ATA made available, You also know the cost to offer these extra categories, the trophies, the shoot offs Etc.

    The ATA is trying to give everyone a trophy, move everyone closer to shoot their easy 2 hole targets and it isn't going to work.

    I have said before and will until the day I die we need to go back to the 3 hole target and 1200 fps shells, 55 yard targets, 45 Degree angles minimum, targets set at 9.5 to 10.5 feet @ 10 yards.

    You saw how the Lewis Class paid at the Ohio State Shoot a shooter got a 1.0 yd punch for a score of 93 it was a MONEY PUNCH.

    The pay outs were good for a change and a lot of shooters got money for a change, I will bet better than the Grand American paid.

    Harold you shot a good score keep it up. And keep your head down

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Harold,

    There are "special provisions" on page 19 for the new categories. The online version of the Rule Book is always the most current.
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Active Member

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    Ah, finally another LS wager. "Greater than the Grand, I bet!"

    What's that one worth!
  5. Harold T. Pack

    Harold T. Pack Member

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    The new categories that I am asking about are Lady 1, Lady 2, , and Sub-Veteran. If I am not mistaken, these categories were created at or about the same time as the 2 yard reductions were instituted. Therefore, there is no mention of such categories in the rule book nor on the web page suggested by V10.

    Back to my orginal inquiry, did your state shoot have these new categories?

    Harold T. Pack
  6. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Active Member

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    Gary -

    I know you have never been one to let facts get in the way of what you say on this forum, but you really should keep in mind that there is a lot of public information available before you start talking about how well the Lewis paid at the Ohio State Shoot.

    The 93 that got the money punch was in event 10. If you look at the Lewis payouts for event 10 a 93 didn't even hit the lewis, let alone get enough money to earn a money punch. In fact there was only 1 lewis payout in event 10 that would have qualified for a money punch, and that was for the high score (98).

    If you look at the Lewis payouts for event 10, they are pretty pedestrian after the top 2 scores. $88, $43, $21, $63, $44, $30. And, that was a $25 lewis entry ($15,975 in the pot, 639 entries). The middle 50 in event 10 is what really paid off, $885. I'm guessing the 93 broke the middle 50 because I don't see any other way a 93 gets a money punch in event 10.

    So, tell us more about those tremendous Lewis payoffs in Ohio . . .

    Scott
  7. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Harold,

    You might want to re-read that online Rule Book just a little more carefully.


    [​IMG]
  8. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Don't you just hate when those dang facts get in the way of a good story?
  9. Harold T. Pack

    Harold T. Pack Member

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    Yes V10 it would appear that rule 7. might apply. I did read it orginally and had quams about its interpertation. Specificly,"...once a shooter has elected to move to the new category that decision is irrevocable..." Ohio state did not have these new sub categories which came into existance after this rule was published in September, 2011. When I first read this section I was in question if rule 7 did or could apply to the newer categories.

    For example, if a young female shooter declares Lady 1 and goes to a shoot that does not offer Lady 1 can she fall back to another category? Further on on page 19 some categories are covered for such an occurance but the word irrevocable is a main concern. One would wish that common sense would prevail.

    So, did any state shoots have these new categories? Ohio did not.

    Maybe we submitt this question to Trap and Fields House Rules by Dave Kaiser.

    Thank you,

    Harold T. Pack
  10. PerazziMX2000

    PerazziMX2000 TS Member

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    Iowa will have these categories in all championship events and all points events. I was at Illinois State shoot and they had these trophys as well.
  11. Donm

    Donm Member

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    Wisconsin will as well.
  12. 870

    870 Active Member

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    Harold:

    You are making this a lot more complicated than it really is. V10 answered your question above. This is all covered in the rulebook.

    Yes, if a lady that had previously shot as Lady 1 goes to a shoot only offering Lady, she can choose to classify as Lady, or depending on age, as a Junior, Sub-junior, etc.

    What are you referring to as "Rule 7?" Not sure what you are talking about as irrevocable? Declaring Cat is irrevocable at a particular shoot once you made the choice, but can be changed at the next shoot to any eligible CAT at that time, or to waive Cat entirely.

    Edit: it's not "Rule 7",but I guess you may be referring to shooters eligible for a new "age based" Cat during the year. Yes, if you make the election to stay where you were at the start of the year that is irrevocable. I just don't see how it comes into play in your question. Lady 2 would still be eligible for Lady at a shoot not offering the new Cats. It is clear you won't be forced irrevocably into a new Cat that doesn't exist at a certain shoot, if that is what you are getting at.
  13. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Now, let me really complicate things...I am a sub-vet, but am I better off declaring "sub-vet" or turning it down and shooting "open"? Martinpicker
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Active Member

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    Mr Pack Lady 1 is an age based category. in this case,

    Lady 1 says "1. A female shooter, who has not reached her 55th Birthday, may
    declare Lady I"

    You asked

    For example, if a young female shooter declares Lady 1 and goes to a shoot that does not offer Lady 1 can she fall back to another category?

    Just what Category would she be able to fall back on other than Sub Jr., Junior, or Junior gold also age based. Which means if she is between the age of 23 and 55 there isn't a category to fall back on just class. Not to mention the fact that she doesn't have to declair Lady 1 if she doesn't want to. She would be foolish to declair Lady 1 If the shoot doesn't provide it.

    To answer your question all the New England State shoots that have been shot so far have these categories at their shoots.

    Bob Lawless
  15. trapshooteraa27aa

    trapshooteraa27aa Active Member

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    Thought the Dr had retired after his stellar performance at ohio but I guess the heat just got to him. Starting to ramble agin. Was pretty decent and quiet for awhile...hoooooo ....hummmmmmm. Martin Luther King had a dream also.
  16. bubbasdad92

    bubbasdad92 Member

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    Illinois had the new categories and they seemed to work out fine. I am eligible for sub-vet, but did not declare. I did win a couple of class trophies and don't know if declaring would have changed anything.

    With regards to Ohio standing alone, that certainly does seem to be their goal.
  17. Harold T. Pack

    Harold T. Pack Member

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    I was told that Kentucky is not offering the new categories.

    Harold T. Pack
  18. Harold T. Pack

    Harold T. Pack Member

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    I was told that Kentucky is not using the new categories.

    Harold T. Pack
  19. straightshooter1

    straightshooter1 Active Member

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    Well, whoever told you that Kentucky was not offering their shooters the opportunity to win in the new catagories apparently never bothered to look at the Kentucky State Shoot Program, which says the new catagories are there.

    So far, Ohio seems to be the only one.

    Bob
  20. Straight50

    Straight50 Member

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    Mr Pack, Ky State is offering the new catagories!

    Martinpicker, I believe choosing a catagory offers you a better chance(?)to win a trophy, because you are shooting against others that have also declared your particular catagory. So, if trophies are your "thing" sign up. Its not a "gimmie" though, you still have to put up good scores, you are just not shooting against as many people. There may other advantages/disadvantages that I don't know about. Rules make may head hurt! lol. BTW, the trophies I have seen are very nice. Not junk stuff at all.
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