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State law, school policy clash over guns

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Fast Oil, Apr 9, 2008.

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  1. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    ZEBULON - For Robert Lumley, the decision to bar his East Wake High School club marksmanship team from a statewide shooting tournament was as arresting as a shotgun blast.

    Less than a day before the March 15 district round of the decades-old N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission competition, one of East Wake's principals, with the support of the area superintendent who oversees that school, stopped the team from participating.

    The reason: Ammo and students don't mix, the school officials said.

    Like districts across the nation, Wake County bans deadly weapons from campuses and prohibits students from carrying them on school trips. But the decision to bar the East Wake team from the tournament extends that prohibition to students participating in an off-campus event sponsored by a state agency and supervised by adults certified in firearms safety.

    That call pits school policy against state law that allows firearms education at schools. The decision also runs counter to the efforts of wildlife agencies, hunting organizations and gun groups to recruit youths to replenish the dwindling number of hunters. It also underscores the tension between the fear of school massacres and the traditions of rural Wake, where hunting is still common.

    "I can appreciate the fact they may have a policy, but all the government agencies need to remember, they're there to serve the public," said Wes Seegars, chairman of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. "There is something lost in a policy that does not serve the needs of the community."

    The East Wake decision nullified months of practice by Lumley, a 17-year-old senior, and the rest of the 16-member marksmanship and orienteering team -- an offshoot of the school-approved FFA club, formerly known as the Future Farmers of America.

    Lumley was riding with a team member the day before the tournament when he got the call that the principal "had put the red light on it," he said.

    "If we had more time, we could have done something about it," Lumley said.

    READ THE REST OF THE STORY AT ABOVE WEBSITE.
     
  2. Laudygirl

    Laudygirl TS Member

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    Here is full story before it gets pulled from web


    ZEBULON - For Robert Lumley, the decision to bar his East Wake High School club marksmanship team from a statewide shooting tournament was as arresting as a shotgun blast.
    Less than a day before the March 15 district round of the decades-old N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission competition, one of East Wake's principals, with the support of the area superintendent who oversees that school, stopped the team from participating.

    The reason: Ammo and students don't mix, the school officials said.

    Like districts across the nation, Wake County bans deadly weapons from campuses and prohibits students from carrying them on school trips. But the decision to bar the East Wake team from the tournament extends that prohibition to students participating in an off-campus event sponsored by a state agency and supervised by adults certified in firearms safety.

    That call pits school policy against state law that allows firearms education at schools. The decision also runs counter to the efforts of wildlife agencies, hunting organizations and gun groups to recruit youths to replenish the dwindling number of hunters. It also underscores the tension between the fear of school massacres and the traditions of rural Wake, where hunting is still common.

    "I can appreciate the fact they may have a policy, but all the government agencies need to remember, they're there to serve the public," said Wes Seegars, chairman of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. "There is something lost in a policy that does not serve the needs of the community."

    The East Wake decision nullified months of practice by Lumley, a 17-year-old senior, and the rest of the 16-member marksmanship and orienteering team -- an offshoot of the school-approved FFA club, formerly known as the Future Farmers of America.

    Lumley was riding with a team member the day before the tournament when he got the call that the principal "had put the red light on it," he said.

    "If we had more time, we could have done something about it," Lumley said.

    Schools diverge

    Not all Wake schools treat marksmanship teams the same.

    Cary High School allows students to use air rifles in school-sanctioned events. Cary's Navy JROTC program fires .117-caliber air rifles as part of off-campus competitions, principal Douglas Thilman said.

    "We have had no issues with it," Thilman said.

    The difference between East Wake and Cary is that JROTC programs are part of the school curriculum and FFA clubs are not, according to Wake Superintendent Del Burns.

    The participation of Lumley's team in the shooting tournament came to the attention of school officials when another Wake school sought permission to participate.

    That request drew the attention of Danny Barnes, area superintendent, and Sebastian Shipp, one of four principals at East Wake, and prompted them to review the status of Lumley's marksmanship team. This led to East Wake not being allowed to compete because of district policy.

    "It's not a criticism of what the kids are trying to do," Barnes said.

    Burns said these kinds of decisions are up to each principal.

    At least one gun-control advocate agrees with the decision.

    "The school and school board should have that right," said Roxane Kolar, executive director of North Carolinians Against Gun Violence. "You have to assume a school knows what's best for their school."

    The Wildlife Commission tournament, now in its 30th year, is an incentive for middle school and high school students to participate in the hunter education course and is part of a larger effort to attract youths to hunting.

    Each year, close to 2,000 middle and high-schoolers compete at the district level across the state. The competition is broken up into skeet shooting, rifle marksmanship, archery, and navigation across forests and fields. The state competition is in late April.
    Chris Huebner of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission hunter's education program said the tournament promotes safety and is far from risky.

    "What we teach is what the consequences are and what [guns are] capable of doing," Huebner said. "It's all in the perspective of safety."

    Like many competitors in the tournament, East Wake's team members are graduates of the state's hunter education program and are part of the school's FFA club, led by adviser and East Wake teacher Janet Harris.

    Harris has taught hunter education at East Wake and coached the tournament team for 22 years. She said her charges aren't happy about being barred from this year's competition.

    "They were very disappointed, very upset," Harris said. "There's nothing we can do about it."

    A question of fairness

    Lumley's mother, Carol, said the hunting education team's members are being unfairly characterized by the school system.

    "It's not like we're the rednecks that have to have guns," she said. "If this was promoting violence, what about wrestling? Is that promoting hand-to-hand combat?"

    Robert Lumley and the rest of the team practiced at neighbors' farms and kept the guns off school grounds.

    "Farm boys and guns go hand in hand," said Fred Ammons, who has hosted the team's tryouts on his farm.

    For Lumley, months of hard training made the last-minute prohibition difficult to accept. Barred from competing on a Friday, Lumley's first thoughts when he woke up the next day were locked on the Saturday competition.

    "When I looked at the clock, it was 11 a.m.," he said. "The first thing I thought was, 'Is the tournament over yet?' "
     
  3. perazzitms

    perazzitms TS Member

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    Why is it that the dumbest people on earth run the public school system.

    Bring aspirin to school and the DEA is called; but the school will hand out birth control to a 13yr old. Wear a t-shirt with an ATA State shoot emblem and get suspended; but wear fishnet stockings with a 4" skirt and a see-through blouse and it's 'self expression'.

    I see significant growth in privately funded education in the near future.
     
  4. jagrdawger

    jagrdawger TS Member

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    Perhaps that school district should relook its entire sports policy. Competitive shooting is one of the safest sports period.

    Football on the other hand has its share of serious injuries, paralysis and fatalities.

    A couple of years ago I had this go round with the mother-in-law and did the research. Her horses were many times more likely to hurt my kids than guns under supervised conditions. I made it plain - if she caused a legal problem with the guns, she would get a restraining order because both kids had already been injured in falls off of her horses AND there were medical documents to prove it. By the way, she did not provide any protective equipment like a riding helmet or ask my permission.

    I think it is time for a new school board, followed by a new administration ( and a new mom-in-law, LOL)
     
  5. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    If something like this can happen in a rural state like North Carolina, it can happen anywhere. We need to take our country back. This nanny state thing is getting out of hand!
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    perazzitms you asked "Why is it that the dumbest people on earth run the public school system." The answer to that question is because we let the Liberals undertake the education of our children.

    I would like to know if as the article says "Like districts across the nation, Wake County bans deadly weapons from campuses and prohibits students from carrying them on school trips. But the decision to bar the East Wake team from the tournament extends that prohibition to students participating in an off-campus event sponsored by a state agency and supervised by adults certified in firearms safety." What gives the School district the right to decide what students are allowed to do off campus.

    I think if this is the case and they feel they have the right to violate students rights off campus that they should be held responsible for their students 24/7!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll bet that wouldn't meet with favorable agreement from the School's principal.

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. buckwheat

    buckwheat TS Member

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    Unfortunatly, we voters have allowed school boards to exercise powers far beyond those granted by statute. In many cases such as this one an admninistrator, a self appointed investigator, prosecutor and adjudicator has dropped an empty hammer on students and parents who fail to share his enlightened viewpoint.

    The school boards and administrators have the responsibilty to provide the opportunity for all to receive an educationional opportunity through the 12th grade. At his task they fail in many instances. It is much easier for those good people to decide they are the moral compass and thought police for our children, rather than tackle the real and difficult issues of running a school and achieving measurable positive results.

    These petty tyrants are allowed to thrive because most people only get involved when their own children are affected. As the man said, change the school board and fire the Superintendent. Hire one who knows he is an employee of the taxpayers, rather than an all knowing social engineer. Or, you could just kick the ever lovin' crap out of him.

    Dan King
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There was a time when inorder to get federal funding to build a high school it had to have a rifle range included in the plans. HMB
     
  9. smp005

    smp005 Member

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    Four years ago when we started our SCTP program the school board said "GUNS!!! No Support from us!".. We proceeded with our program with NO TIES to the school system other than we served the same kids. The following year after our kids won the Ohio State SCTP championship (the only state championship the school had ever on in any sport) they came to us wanting to know if we would like their assistance - we politely told them NO - looks like we made the right decision!

    We are better funded than any of the school sports and we manage to do it without tax levies or threatening to make sports "pay to play"..........

    Other than a recruitment avenue for our SCTP program, I am sad to say I have found the school systems (in our area of Ohio) USELESS!!!!!!

    Let's see... We have 80+ kids in our program, over half of which are high school and spend their Friday evenings with us at the range all spring - no beer, no drugs, all dressed and all wearing the same vest, all shapes, all sizes, girls, boys, honor roll & struggling - all coming together and enjoying active participation, no one sitting on the bench, no one left out...

    All for $55.00 - 10 weeks / 2 rounds of trap each week / shells, targets and T-shirt included. all without public money...........

    So much for the value of our public schools and the elected morons that oversee them!!

    My apologies - the public school issue just burns me........


    Scott Powell
    Copley Trap Range
    Chippewa Trapshooting Club
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Powell don't apologize you are not wrong about anything you have said. As a matter of fact you are correct about every word you said.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. stary dziat

    stary dziat TS Member

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    I am a retired liberal schoolteacher who is a duck hunter,trapshooter skeet shooter, and a member of the NRA along with my wife, another liberal school teacher. I have taken some of my students to my gun club to learn to shoot. I have taught several of my student how to break down Rem 870 and 1100 shot guns to keep them in good firing condition. ( this was done in my classroom after shool hours). The guns were without barrels and therefore harmless. In the high school where I taught, we had many men and some women who hunted. Iguess there are a number of teachers out there who are against all shooting sports, but don't put all liberal school teachers in that catagory.
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "....don't put all liberal school teachers in that catagory."<br>
    <br>
    I believe it's quite fair to say the problem IS with liberals in the school system. But yes, noted, there ARE exceptions. Thank you for your efforts.
     
  13. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Remember it's only 99.9% of liberals who give the rest a bad name! The truth is liberal idiots have taken over the school systems and RIUNED them. Unfortunetly many parents have stood by and LET that happen. Remember, liberals beleive no one has a right to be free thinkers and believe only "THEY" have the knowledge to "SAVE THE WORLD" through their socialistic control. Liberals beleive America is to blame for all the worlds evils and their job is to oppose all things conservative to "RECTIFY" the situation. Deep down they hate guns because it represents the the representation of a free society which stands in they way of their socialist agenda. As for me, I can tell you no stupid liberal puke would ever tell my my kid what activities they take part in "off" Campus. If the problem is school "sponsorship" then that is another battle.If the school is removing "sponsorship" then the matter may have to go the legal route and teams may have to find alternate "sponsorship" in the meantime. In many cases, STCP teams are finding it much easier to operate with private sponsorship that become involved with these liberal BOZOs. Trusting a liberal to oversee a shooting team is like putting a pack of wolves in charge of your cattle herd!
     
  14. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    Mr. Powell,
    Could you e-mail me your plan of action that allowed your kids to shoot that many rounds for $55? I am a high school principal in Idaho and have been kicking around the idea along with another administrator in a neighboring district of getting something going here with our kids. My e-mail is: lbayley@kunaschools.org

    Thanks!
    Lyle
     
  15. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    It's time to get political school boards and superintendents eliminated. They are a thing of the past.

    No more politics in running schools. We need a more ROI (Return of Investment) approach to spending the publics' money operating schools.

    Whiz White<BR>
    Retired School Administrator
     
  16. smp005

    smp005 Member

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    Whiz - Several years ago I attended a school board meeting and suggested that they look for a retired financial executive that would offer to guide them in proper financial planning, reporting and general fiscal matters. You would have thought I had called for the elimination of the school board itself!

    Needless to say, I get the "evil eye" if I show up at a school board meeting... All I asked for was a published annual capital & expense financial report - current year budget and 5 year plan, line item detailed to the hundreds of dollars.... In other words - I asked them to show us where they were spending and planned to spend our tax dollars.

    Yeah right - fat chance of ever seeing that..........................!!!
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    smp........I think maybe the Freedom of Information act will force them to divulge those items.

    File a request quoting the FOIA.

    HM
     
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