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Squad leader etiquette

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jim Bradbury, Jul 18, 2012.

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  1. Jim Bradbury

    Jim Bradbury Member

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    Somehow after a shoot this spring I have ended up being squad leader on the squad that I shoot on. There are several of us that ended up together once and we liked the timing that the squad had. I was asked if I would mind shooting with the same group of guys and said I would. Since I shot as squad leader that first time, I have been squad leader ever since. I do not mind, although sometimes I think that being the first one to shoot has cost me a target or two every now and then. My question is at a shoot last week. We get a lot of young high school kids scoring that do not always know the rules.One of the shooters had a broken target come out. The shooter shot it adn hit it(He did not know it was a broken target). The scorer did not call it a "broken target" or "no target". I was the next person to shoot. I looked down the line and could see one of the other shooters looking at me and knew that he knew it was a broken target as well. Was I out of place telling the shooter the target was broken and he needed to re-shoot the target even though the scorer did not see it? Now a few days later, shooting doubles. Just as I let go of my release trigger for the first target I saw a broken chip that looked like it was from the first target. I did not shoot at the second target, stopped. Reloaded the first shell and called for another pair and broke the pair. Again the scorer did not call a broken target. (It was a different scorer this time) Have I done the right thing?

    Thanks,

    Jim Bradbury
     
  2. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Jim -

    There are a couple of schools of thought on this.

    The first is the group of people who adhere to "the scorer is always right" theory, which includes a scorer not calling a target lost when it really was. Those people tend to stay with that program as long as it doesn't adversely affect their score, but aren't hesitant to deviate if the scorer makes a call that does adversely affect their score.

    The second group of people are those that know the rules and try their best to adhere to them. Doing that involves questioning/correcting a scorer if they make an error. Things like a broken target that might not be noticed by the scorer, target debris coming from the house, etc. It doesn't mean you have to be a rule nazi, but stopping to question the scorer/squad when it appears an error has been made seems like the right thing to do.

    Above all, the squad leader has no more or no less responsibility for this than the other shooters on the squad. It's not the squad leaders job to enforce the rules or identify/correct errors. That should be done by everyone on the squad. The squad leader is only responsible for making sure everyone is ready before beginning each post, and carrying the scoresheet from trap to trap. After that everyone on the squad is equal.

    Scott
     
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Jim, you did the right thing.

    And it has absolutely nothing to do with being the "squad leader."

    People think that the squad leader is "in charge." And that s/he has to be the one to do all manner of things. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Rule Book details the squad leaders duties. They're pretty simple. He or she is not the sole person on the squad who needs to make sure that everything is done correctly.

    On my squad, your first example would have resulted in at least two or three guys calling "broken target." Sometimes the scorer doesn't see the piece. Sometimes they aren't trained properly. It's up to each shooter to make sure the rules are complied with.
     
  4. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    I've gotten so bad that I holler "no bird" when a broken target comes out, even when I'm watching another squad shoot. :) Mark
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    There's a heap of responsibility placed on a scorekeeper and they may have the best seat on the trap but possibly not the best focal point on all targets! Visible chips are broken targets according to our rule and all targets should be watched intently by ALL shooters to make sure everything is fair for all! Trained scorekeepers are scarce all across the country and it's up to the shooters to know the rules and see to it everyone abides by them to the best of their ability!

    I agree with Scott's assessment of how it should be done also. If the shooters on a squad is a heads down till it's my turn to shoot, they leave it entirely up to some kid working his first rodeo?? Heck, I've seen some even call the wad close to the target a broken target!! I recall watching a squad shoot years back and Jimmy Heller was there among our group watching when this was taking place! The two shooters that benefited from from that kids "Super-Man" eyesight said nary a word and the scores stood! That folks was a couple of well known ATA shooters too!! I lost all respect for those two right then and there!! Know the rules and watch the targets for the integrity of the game!

    Hap
     
  6. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    Depends on your first shot on Doubles. If you broke the target you did right,if you missed the first target it should have been scored a lost pair. Next shooter.
     
  7. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Pulldude -

    Incorrect! Check the rulebook. 11-d would apply based on the OP's description of what happened. The ruling would be No Target.

    Scott

    11. In addition, in DOUBLES EVENTS, the referee/scorer shall rule
    “NO TARGET” and allow another pair of targets in the following
    instances ONLY:

    a. When only one target is thrown.

    b. When more than two targets are thrown.

    c. When both targets are broken by one shot.

    d. When one or both targets are thrown broken even though the
    contestant fires at one or both targets.

    e. When one or both targets are not within the prescribed angle or
    height limits and the contestant does not fire at either target.

    f. If the contestant fires at an illegal first target and the second target
    is legal, he/she must also fire at the second target, and if he/she
    fails to do so, the legal second target shall be ruled, “LOST.” After
    a contestant has fired at either a legal or illegal first target, he/she
    is not required to fire at an Illegal second target, but if he/she does
    fire, the result must be scored.
     
  8. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Scott,


    Your copy and paste skills are beyond reproach.


    However, the squad leader is NOT designated in the rule book as the squad police.


    I like being a squad leader, mostly cause I get a bit of a chubby being in charge. Unfortunately the squad leader is not in charge of nothing…. It reminds me of the good old days tho when I was.



    Guy Babin
     
  9. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Guy -

    Please re-read my post. I never said the squad leader was in charge, in fact I said just the opposite, that he had no more or less power/responsibility than anyone else on the squad (besides making sure everyone is ready and carrying the scoresheet).

    Scott
     
  10. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    I stand corrected, thank you for the correction. May i should read the rule book a little more often. Once again thanks for the correction!
     
  11. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Download it to your phone!!! With you always!
     
  12. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    Integrity you have it or you don't.
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I am the squad leader on my squad and I rule with an iron fist. We have a squad secretary, who signs us all in and pre-squads us for shoots. We have a squad union steward and an enforcer. We correct the scorer, we enforce the rules on each other, we take targets away from each other or add them if that is what is correct. But believe me nobody has a better time or more fun shooting than we do.

    Don
     
  14. Jim Bradbury

    Jim Bradbury Member

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    That first target in doubles when I saw the broken piece. I just absolutely crushed that first target. But seeing the broken piece I stoped and re-shot the pair.

    Jim Bradbury
     
  15. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    Bigdon, you guys have got it right! We are close to that as far as our little hometown b.s. leagues, but even having an enforcer? You are having a good time! Bill
     
  16. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    You did the right thing. I to have called Broken Target and had the shoter shoot again. No problem from anone.

    As for Bigdon, if I was running a shoot I would make sure their squad was broken up.
     
  17. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    BIGDON, I admire your squads selective service/rank. You need to give me lessons. Seems on most of my squads I'm not only leader but secretary as well:)
     
  18. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    No....I have shot lead on hundreds of squads. I call broken targets when I see them in case the scorer misses it, and dead when the scorer misses a chip I see. I've never been challenged on my calls. It's the right thing to do.
     
  19. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Bigdon. Does one have to sign a contract to shoot with you? d;o]
     
  20. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    DELETED FOR LANGUAGE - MODERATOR
     
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