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??? Springfield XD Gunsmith help ???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ouch, Aug 5, 2010.

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  1. ouch

    ouch Member

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    A co-worker that recently become a gun enthusiast bought a Springfeild XD .45acp. He did this without consulting myself or the 20 other shooters at our work place and obviously without even trying to cycle the slide.

    He confided with me yesterday that he doesn't have the physical strength to cycle the slide (he can do it,but not in a safe/controled manner) He does have enough grip strength that it functions fine when he shoots it (No limp wrist problems) The "dealer" he purchased it from told him the gun functions fine "He is just weak"

    My question is: 1. Are lower power recoil springs avalible from Wolfe or ? 2.Can I cut a coil or 2 off the o.e.m. mainspring ?

    I feel bad for the guy, He is an older fellow (like me) with signs of arthritis,Carpoltunnel sp? syndrome and just plain weakening with age. I would have never suggested this gun but he followed some gunshop commandos advise and it's done.

    I thank you in advance for constructive advise to fix the problem. He knows he could sell it,The dealer should return it ect. Thank you! Richard
     
  2. JPSemper

    JPSemper Member

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    Call Rich at Www.canyoncreekcustom.com . He knows everything that needs to be known about the HD.

    John Semprini
     
  3. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Don't mess around with the recoil spring.

    As insensitive as it sounds, I agree with the gun dealer. The XD needs that strong spring pressure to keep the barrel and slide from moving in relation to each other until the bullet is out of the muzzle. Weak or shortened recoil springs allow striker-fired guns like the XD and the Glock to fire out of battery (detonate a round before they are supposed to). The hammer spring in a hammer gun carries some of that load. Normal use requires the XD's full-strength recoil spring/assembly to be replaced about every 2000-2500 rounds anyway because they get weaker and shorter with use.

    I think your friend would be better off to trade the XD back in on a gun he can handle.

    MK
     
  4. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Good advice MK

    A person that weak should look at a revolver. You should be able to clear a jam on a semi-auto.

    Don Verna
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Yip, co-worker bought the wrong gun. He either needs to work on his strength or get a revolver. Weak/soft springs have no place in any 45 auto!

    ss
     
  6. ML

    ML Member

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    I am a concealed carry instructor in Oklahoma. Often I have students that cannot cycle the slide on an auto pistol. I teach them to grip the slide with their left hand and push the grip with their right hand. This movement in done close to their chest and makes cycling a slide very easy. I have had women of small stature learn to do this in no time at all.

    Regards
    M.L.
     
  7. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    ML...great advise.
     
  8. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    If the elder gentleman has arthritis, he should go ahead and get a revolver. Arthur is not going away!

    The gun dealer did not do the customer any favors.

    Being rather long in the tooth, I deal with a lot of folks in the same boat.
     
  9. blowin smoke

    blowin smoke TS Member

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    What ML said, plus you can also place the end of the slide (where it has some surface area just outside of barrel) against a hard surface and push the slide backward to chamber a round. It takes some practice to get proficient with this and I would practice with dummy rounds until comfortable with it, making sure your finger is no where near the trigger as chances are you will be depressing the grip safety in order to keep a firm purchase on the gun while executing. Probably not ideal solution for your friend, but not a bad thing for any of us who carry a semi-auto for defense purposes to practice once in a while - you never know if both "wings" will be available to work a slide in a self defense situation.
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    There are certainly ways to work around a lack of strength if you have to but I think it's more important to be able to properly operate the gun in all conditions without workarounds than it is to own a gun you are fascinated with but can't properly operate. Having to struggle with a gun makes practice a chore and compromises its value as a self defense option.

    MK
     
  11. ouch

    ouch Member

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    I thank all of you very much. My knowledge of these and all of the Poly / Striker guns is poor. He really wants to get into the shooting sports but seeks information from the wrong sources. And you are correct that the dealer totally failed by not seeing that he struggled with or really not even allowing him to cycle the slide.

    I told him the bad news today about the recoil spring. He is lucky this seems to be a popular pistol and he should be able to sell it easily.Thank you again ! Richard
     
  12. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    The XD is a very good pistol but no pistol is suitable if the owner can't operate the manual of arms. One of the unique features of the XD is the slide can't be operated unless the grip safety is depressed fully. That complicates things for the weak or infirm shooter. It also makes the hold the slide and rack the frame technique not as helpful. Many competition shooters wrap the top of the slide with skateboard tape to make it quicker and easier to rack the slide. A lot of times it's not strength as much as it is being able to get a good enough grip. Sounds like a 9mm 1911 might be the answer for this gentleman, the 9 has a lighter recoil spring and you can cock the hammer first to make racking the slide easier if you need to.

    Pushing the muzzle against something to chamber a round would be very difficult with an XD with the guide rod sticking out.
     
  13. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    CCW1911: That feature of not being able to rack the slide without the grip safety depressed is not only on the XD, I have a Para 16/40 LDA 1911 and it has the same problem. I say problem because I am selling this gun because of this feature. When you reposition your hand to lock the slide it comes off the safety and locks the slide. This could easily get you killed.

    We had to have this gun sent to a gunsmith to reassemble it after the first time I took it apart. The reason is you CAN"T EVEN PUT THE SLIDE BACK ON WITHOUT THE GRIP SAFETY DEPRESSED!!!@@#%&*$%^*#^%* Who would have thunk it? And several knowledgable people including me, couldn't figure it out.

    I am a Front Sight training school shooter, and I have been many times and I'm not half bad.

    I have a friend who has the same exact problem as mentioned above with his new .45 ACP XD.

    I can hardly work the slide on that gun, they are just plain STIFF! and all the "technique" in the world won't help, that much. My friend who is older with grip issues can't even rack the slide.

    My friend got a used CZ 82 Which is a well made auto pistol in 9MM Makarov caliber that works like a double action 1911. He can work the gun and do all of the malfunction drills fine with that gun. As a result he can learn how to shoot properly, as opposed to fighting a gun he would never be able to shoot well, let alone master.

    Your friend needs to get something like a 9MM Glock to learn how to shoot.

    Here's the deal guys, we talk about Glocks all the time here. There is a really good reason why you see so many of them. THEY ARE THE SIMPLEST GUN TO OPERATE THERE IS, OTHER THAN A REVOLVER. They are also very reliable guns, and if I was going to war I would be carrying one, and not a G%& D&*$ Berrito 92.

    They operate well in virtually any circumstance, they require little maintenance, no lubrication, little cleaning, and you can teach some one just about everything there is to know about one, in one hour. You can carry enough spare parts to keep it running in a 3x5 plastic bag and all you need a 3/32 pin punch to completely disassemble one.

    You can only do 3 things to a Glock, 1. you can put a magazine in it. 2. you can rack the slide. 3. you can pull the trigger. There is no safety other than the one on the trigger, the gun cannot fire if dropped. The only way the gun can fire is if the trigger is pulled,, period. It is not even cocked until you pull the trigger.

    Anything else just complicates matters when you are trying to learn how to shoot defensive. You got many things to concentrate on at once, and the simpler the gun is the quicker you'll learn the basics.

    I ALWAYS recommend Glocks to new people who are just learning to shoot a pistol for all the above reasons. I tell men to get a .40 S&W G22,or 23, and I tell women to get a 9mm G17,or 19.

    There are many fine guns, and many are copies of Glocks, but this outfit got it right,,, first.

    Once you learn how to shoot and have mastered all of the "FUNDIMENTALS!!" then you can convert to other more complicated guns. The 1911 is the next more complicated gun up the list as it adds the safety which must be learned completely. However if you already know how to do everything else then you can concentrate on the safety and it is no big deal. Failure to engage the safety on a 1911 before reholstering can get you into trouble FAST, and I have personally witnessed, at close range, a guy shooting himself in the leg in this very manner. He did it with a beautiful Custom Shop Kimber.45, which he had paid $1500 for, and he forgot to engage the safety before reholstering after blowing a clearing drill. boom,,,, OUCH!. Helicopter ride to Las Vegas General.

    Then you get into the Decockers. I first went to Front Sight with a CZ40P .40S&W decocker. It was a nightmare to learn on. You have 2 trigger pulls to master, one is 9 lbs and the other is 2 lbs. You have to de-cock everytime you reholster. I had a pea sized calous on my right thumb after the class from this. They originally wanted me to decock as soon as I went to the ready, but this didn't work, so we ended up just decocking when reholstering. This gun was not easy to learn, and I finally did learn how to operate it fairly well after months of dry firing and drilling.

    I learned the Glock in one day! and graduated the next time out

    You have to work 3 times as hard with decockers to do the same things you do with a Glock easily. After the 3rd time to FS I got a Glock 35 and never looked back.

    With the decockers, if you fail to decock the gun before reholstering, it's the same as not engaging the safety on a 1911, and any "caress" of the trigger and bang, you've shot yourself.

    I see this all of the time: You need to learn the FUNDIMENTALS of anything FIRST. Then you learn how to go fast or get better or whatever.

    This is true more so with GUNS, than other things!

    The easier it is to learn the "Fundimentals" the quicker you become competant with firearms. In firearms Competance is Safety. This is true of shotguns rifles and pistols, but most true in pistols as they are the easiest to point in the wrong direction.

    Get trained NOW!

    www.frontsight.com

    Randy
     
  14. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Everyone can form their own opinion but there is something about the Front Sight training facility that is not advertised. If you plan on going there make sure you have no problem with the Scientology cult. Some people think that place is nothing but a front for exposing people to Scientology, others say they never noticed. I do notice that some who have attended seem to be very dedicated and protective of Front Sight. Do some research on your own. I will say there are many established firearm training facilities that have nothing to do with any cult, that were actually built by men who like Col Cooper for instance, who was a combat veteran and started Gunsight. With the huge rise in concealed carry, some have seen firearms training as a lucrative business and have invested huge amounts of money to create a firearms disneyworld, whether they have any knowledge of firearms and what they are used for or not. Some will hire good experienced instructors, sadly many entrepreneurs don't have the background to understand what makes a good firearms trainer.

    I know I will be attacked for posting this. I don't care I'm just letting a group (trapshooters) know something they probably have no idea about since we have someone promoting Front Sight among us we need to hear both sides. Just do your homework, check things out, there are many excellent places to get firearms training. Just like getting trapshooting lessons, no one person knows everything, but it pays to spend your money with someone who knows what they are doing and are dedicated to it not just the money.
     
  15. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Interesting comments from Randy and sliverbulletexpress ;

    Have owned Sigs, HK's Berettas, S&W Glock besides Kimbers and Para-O. The heavier load requires a heavier spring but I never had problems. Is the XD different or just a case of lack of knowledge and experience?

    Comments on Front Sight are interesting as I have been receiving their info. for months now. I decided on practice time vs. airline fees - at least for now. When ready I will take a SIG factory class which is taught a few hours away. Have shot handguns for a few decades and reloaded during the 90's. Getting back to the reloading and enjoying steel plate shooting. Combines many elements and it's a challenge. Two guys went out to Front Sight, shot one more steel plate match and I haven't seen them since. Perhaps they were "called away"?

    http://www.steelshooters.com/index.php/Main_Page


    thanks, JT
     
  16. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    WR, I'm well aware of the Para LDA, I am also well aware of how much different they are than a standard 1911. I was responding to the question about the XD which is an excellent pistol.

    I like safety's on pistol that will be used for personal defense. You mention seeing someone let a round go off while reholstering including the brand and price as if that somehow makes a difference. I have seen many people shoot themselves on reholster, every time it was the persons fault. As an example I saw the Captain of a South American Pistol team do it during a World Championship, his pistol was a Taurus 92 but that makes no difference. If you have your finger on the trigger of a loaded, off safe, pistol, when finger meets holster...boooom..ouch. Even a Glock will do the same thing if you make the same stupid mistake.

    Back to the OP's original post and problem. It's a bigger problem that it looks like it is at first glance. People with arthritis in their hands lose dexterity and strength. Auto's with plenty of power many times have heavy recoil springs. Striker style pistols have a different feel and effort than non striker autos. My original suggestion of a 9mm 1911 would work since he wants to shoot in competition, don't know what kind of competition but most have a place for a 9mm. You can put very light recoil springs in a 9mm 1911 and Springfield Armory makes a nice one for a fair price. If he reloads or has a friend who reloads, a 45 1911 is not completely out of the question. With very light loads you can go down to a 10 or 11 lb recoil spring if you need to. Remember to cock the hammer first to take that extra effort away from racking the slide.

    Please contact me if you I can help.
     
  17. ouch

    ouch Member

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    I thank all of you folks for the very constructive information. It bothers me that a local gunshop would sell him this XP without wathing him try to pull back the slide, But it's also bad that my co-worker purchased this without consulting any of us at work. There must be 20 plus shooters at our work place all willing to take him out to try different guns we own.

    I have passed the info on to him. Thank you again! Richard
     
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