1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Speed of Loads

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by esetter, Apr 1, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    Just checked the speed of my reloads and I'm averaging about 75fps slower than the book calls for. I'm loading for 1200fps and the average is about 1125 after checking 15 shells. The thing that really bothers me is I'm getting a variation in speeds from 1075 to 1240. I've checked and double checked my set-up and everything seems to be perfect. I'm dropping exactly 15.5 grains of Universal Clays for a 7/8 oz 20 gauge load, with old style AA hulls and claybuster wads. The books say it should be at 1200 fps. Any suggestions on what I should do to bump up my speed and more importantly get a consistent speed? Thanks for the help.
     
  2. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,622
    Location:
    HI
    Did you check some factory loads with your chronograph?

    Were all 15 powder drops checked with a scale?

    Were all 15 shot drops checked with a scale?

    What kind of chronograph do you have?

    How far are the screens from the end of the muzzle?

    Answers to these questions would help the real experts on this board.

    I just stayed in a few Holiday Inn Express motels. ;)
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
    I,v loaded Solo 1000 for some time and try to load for 1200 fps. I use new once fired Federal hulls for a test load Federal Wads Fedarel primer and 1 1/18 oz. shot . My loads are never more or less then 10 fps . I use a cheap Chrony and test it with a 22 cal. rifle before the shot shell . Most 22,s run close and shooting four or five shows the Chrony is working .
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,849
    esetter, what brand of chrono and how are you using it? With variability like that, you don't have an average at all, so don't even worry about that.

    Get the variability down so you can get some numbers to work with; that's why I asked since the answer will probably be somewhere there.

    Neil
     
  5. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    I've seen troubles with some chronographs because of not using the diffusers, or using them improperly. You may also have trouble with the chrongraph itself. I had one that would not work well with shotshells. It showed one shotshell load at over 4000 fps. Not too unrealistic for a varmint rifle, but not a reliable reading for a shotshell. A replacement chronograph did fine. What you have described is most likely a problem with your "setup". Try some factory shells and see if you still have the inconsistencies. You could try a string of .22 rimfire loads over it to see what you get. Sometimes a call to the chronograph manufacturer might shed a little light on the issue.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    As both Neil and Quack Shot suggested, the problem might be with the chronograph and not the reloads.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. abiezer

    abiezer Guest

    put chrony on a tripod, and angle toward the sunlight, even if the unit has to be angled almost sideways, it doesn't matter,point it toward the light,use your hand over the unit to see where your hand has to be to cast a shadow over the light diodes,
    that is where you shot pattern need to go over the unit,about 6 -8 " over the unit and level over both diodes.
     
  8. Stu Pidash

    Stu Pidash TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    119
    Before diagnosing problems let me just ask this one simple question.

    Do they break targets or have you yet to try them before frantically jumping off the deep edge?
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,760
    If you get +/- 15fps on any load, you will be doing great including new shells.
     
  10. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    I wanted to answer some of the questions here. The machine I'm using is a Chrony. I would like to blame the machine but three others where checking their shells also and getting good readings and consistent reads. I didn't weigh every load that I shot but I did measure a number of loads before and after I shot and they were measuring perfectly. Yes it is possible that I was getting a poor powder drop, but I came home and measured 5 shells and they were right on the button. I have been shooting this load for about a year and shoot it well, but I have to say I shot 7625 better. It just got so expensive that I switched to the Universal Clays. This is the first time I've checked them for speed and I was surprised to see such a variance.
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    esetter, here are a couple of things I would try.

    You don't say how far your muzzle was from the front screen. That can make a difference. I use 6', because any closer and I get wider variations in readings. Sometimes 6' isn't enough. The manufacturer of my chronograph suggests 8'.

    If you have choke tubes, put a cylinder choke in, or your most open choke. That will help with variability.

    If possible, try a different lot of the same powder. Maybe a friend has some and you can borrow a couple of ounces. Canister grade powders are usually pretty close to the "standard", but sometimes not. The last 8lb jug of Red Dot I bought required a .006" larger bushing to throw the correct charge weight, and even then it didn't give the correct velocity (too low).

    You didn't say what components you were using, but 15.5gr of Universal sounds a little low for 1200fps. For the components I use, STS hull, STS209 or W209 primer and RXP20 wad, Hodgdon's loading data says 16.7gr for 1200fps, and 15.8 for 1150fps.
     
  12. Stu Pidash

    Stu Pidash TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    119
    You now need to start all over again because each and every time you miss you will blame it on the shell since it seems you are now lacking confidence in them because of the need for you to be one of those who felt the need to check and test and over analyze.

    From this point on whenever you miss a target it will always be in the back of your mind if that shell was one that was to fast or to slow and if it was only one of the correct ones you would have hit the target ... yep find a new recipe and be done with it.

    FYI ... the cost difference between 7625 and Universal Clays does seem like a allot when you like at the price but lets figure it a different way. Lets say you shoot a flat a week and over the course of the year you will shoot 52 flats or 13,000 rounds. Now if you figure that you would average 16gr of powder per load that would be a total of 208,000gr of powder for the entire year which would equate to 3.7143 8lb containers of powder. Now with an approximate $30 a container difference and figuring that 3.7143 containers a year you would use that equates to about $112 a year which would be $2.16 a flat or less a penny a shell difference in price ... now aint you worth at least a penny a shell? Please tell us that your worth more than a penny a shell.

    Sometimes people need to break down and actually see what the cost savings is, to some it is allot but to others less than a penny a shell is just kind of ... excuse me but I will finish chuckling in a minute or two. ;-)
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    esetter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to figure out why something is happening. It's part of the fun. There is also nothing wrong with trying to make the most consistent reload you can. Even if you don't think it makes a discernible difference, a reload that returns an SD of 6 is certainly a better reload than one with SDs of 20.

    There are those on this forum who are lax in their reloading. Like one powder bushing and powder and three shot bushings for all loads from 7/8oz to 1 1/8oz. No checking drop weights for powder lot to powder lot. Just pull the lever. And then they have the nerve to complain their reloads are not reliable enough for competition, and they have to use factory shells. Where is the sense in that? I'll bet Stu Pidash is in that camp, so just ignore him. It's only lunatic rantings anyway.
     
  14. Stu Pidash

    Stu Pidash TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    119
    Yep lunatic rantings and thanks for reading and responding to them zzt.
     
  15. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    I'm going to go and measure everything on ten shells and then try it all again and see how they read out. For the record I'm loading the exact measures from the Clays manual and it states 1200fps. It is WAA20 wad, 15.5 grains Universal Clays, old style Winchester AA hulls, my only variation is the Rio primer. I'll let you know in a little while how the new testing comes out. The manual on the Chrony says stay 5 feet away from the machine when testing. I'll move back a little more and try it again.
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,849
    Try some premium factory shells too. At least ten shots with them if speeds look consistent. That should help pinpoint the problem - testing or shells?

    Neil
     
  17. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    Just came in and I have solved the problem. This was a borrowed machine and I was just using it as I was told by the owner. After reading the instructions I found out you have to be 5 feet back and between 4 and 6 inches above the sensors. I was too close and a little too high thus causing my errors. After shooting from the correct distance and the correct height I was getting readings between 1185fps and 1210fps. Those speeds I can live with. Actually almost every shell was within 10fps of 1200. Moral of the story, don't believe your friends all the time and always read the instructions!!! Thanks for all the help, you got me on the right track with your comments.
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    esetter

    Glad to hear you solved the issue. All it takes is a little exoerimentation and detective work. One note, if you are loading with the Rio primer, I'd be wary of the pressures. The Rio has apparently developed some higher pressures in many loads. If your recipe calls for a Winchester Primer and you substitute the Rio, just be advised that in some loads the Rio develops pressures closer to the Federal 209A.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.