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Speed of 1oz. loads

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by wayneo, Sep 16, 2009.

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  1. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I've been using 1oz loads from 16 to 24 yards. Loading some at 1150 fps and some at 1200 fps. Both pattern well and bust birds well. On Hodgdon's web site they have load data from 1100 to 1250 with 700X, Alliant has data for Red Dot from 1145 to 1300. What are the advantages of a load 1100 fps. or a load as fast as 1250-1300 fps? Thanks Wayne
     
  2. squirrelkiller

    squirrelkiller TS Member

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    The 1250-1300 (around 19.3 red dot in AA hull) will eject from a SX-1 much better. Plus, they just mash the bird. I haven't taken the time to figure which is a better cost savings - saving lead using 1 oz. instead of 1 1/8, or increasing powder for the 1 oz. bird buster from around 18.3 to 19.3). Has someone taken the time on the calculator page?
     
  3. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    The only real clay busting difference between the loads that you list is recoil.......lots of it at 1300, much less at 1100.
     
  4. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    You take a 1 ounce load of no. 8's and push them fast enough they will break birds like a 1 1/8 ounce load of no. 7 1/2's with the same pellet count. The problem is that when you push the 1 ounce load to go faster you also bring the recoil up closer to the recoil of the 1 1/8 ounce slower load. It's a wash unless you are saving money reloading the 1 ounce load.
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Wayne...

    As I have access to thousands of Estate & Top Gun hulls, below are the 2 recipes I use.

    The 1st (1 oz.) recipe is what I use for singles and both shots of doubles. The 2nd (1-1/8 oz.) recipe is for for long yardage 'caps.

    1) 1 oz of hard shot, Federal 209A primer, Fed. 12S0 wad, 17 grs. of 700X in a Estate hull.

    2) 1-1/8 oz. of hard shot, Federal 209A primer, Fed. 12S3 wad, 19.5 grs. of 700X in a Top Gun hull.

    Both pattern very well from my Beretta 682 Gold E. IM and Mod. chokes.

    Curt
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Wayne- I would have to answer your question from two positions. First, logic and math would suggest no great advantage with the faster velocity. But, mentally, I would be happier with a little more velocity when shooting handicap. You are giving up a little using 1 oz loads for handicap and my mind would be happier with the increased velocity. At times, what I think might be an advantage is more important than any real advantage that might be achieved with the higher velocity.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Think about how many years, decades and beyond that we were satisfied with and developed great shooters with nothing to choose between but 1145 fps or 1200 fps. The only reason we started seeing weenie velocities was because people asked for them. Same with super hot loads. I know many 27 yard shooters with averages I hunger for that shoot nothing but +/- 1150 fps loads and others that want at least 1200 fps loads. The loads you suggest will certainly decrease or increase recoil. Do you need them? To say what Pat did a little differently, if you have more confidence in loads of less or more than 1145/1200 fps, then you should probably use them; the improvement is in your mind seeking confidence.....breakemall......Bob Dodd
     
  8. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    I have a 28 ga Briley companion tube for my BT99. I load 3/4oz of 8s to ~1150 fps and from the 16, I can crush targets.....if I am "on".

    The fringes of that pattern are a little thinner than the 1 oz load of 8s that I shot usually, so you do have to get on them a little better.

    In short, 1 oz of 8s at 1150 is a great plenty right back to the 23 or so.....some say to the 27, but that is a little too far for me.
     
  9. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    To really comment on this from another perspective. The question is, would there be a real advantage in velocity out where the targets would be broken. The difference in energy doesn't look like enough that I would go a few hundred fps faster and punish myself with more recoil. 7 1/2's or 8's starting out at 1150 or 1200 fps should have enough energy to break a target back to the 27. Even at 1100 fps initial velocity, the difference gets smaller as the range goes longer. There's a link to a chart showing the data at the link above. I have one that is a bit easier to read, but it has a few mistakes on it, so I will not scan and post it for that reason. It looks like 9's lose quite a bit at longer yardages, but 8's and 7 1/2's do quite well. The time of travel out to reasonable yardages isn't affected as much as you might think either. As an example, the difference in energy per pellet at 60 yards between a 7 1/2 shot pellet at 1295 fps and 1145 fps initial velocity is .91 ft./lbs compared to .81 ft./lbs. That's not enough difference for me to rattle my teeth with every shot.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    One advantage of 1100 fps loads is that it does not break the sound barrier and patterns remain tighter. Also the faster a load leaves the barrel the faster it slows down compared to a slower load. By the time they reach the target the difference in velocity is very small. HMB
     
  11. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll load up some 1100 and 1300fps rounds and hit the pattern board from 35 and 45 yards and let you know what I found. Thanks again. Wayne
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    wayneo

    Probably find the 1300 fps loads kick more. Maybe a slight difference in patterns.
     
  13. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Hey Curt. What kind of loader do you run those TG and Estates thru? I cannot get my PW to like the steel bases on the TG and Estate.
     
  14. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    MIA,

    I load Estates (twice and toss) on my 800+. 4-5 out of a hundred will stick on the second loading enough to mash the crimp area down preventing the shell from ejecting from the shell holder (die) during the eject sequence. I have to remove the shell holder and use a pair of pliers to re-shape the shell and use the dowel and hammer to remove the loaded shell. I don't find the Estates to stick any worse than Rem GC's or old worn out AA's that I should have tossed the last loading. I have only loaded a box or two of TG's, but I encountered no difficulty.

    Now that Estates have gone up so much I don't buy them. I bought 14 flats for $49.95 with free shipping from Cabelas over a year ago. When my supply of DRXXL orange wads is depleted I won't be loading them anymore.

    Obviously, YMMV.

    HBT
     
  15. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Just got done with the patterns of the 1100 and 1250 fps loads.

    1250 load/ 18 grains 700X, STS hull, Green Duster wad, Win 209 primer, 1oz. #8 West Coast magnum. I'm using a Browning BT-99 with a Carlson's IM choke, from a bench rest at 35 yards.

    327 pellets out of 420 inside the 30" circle for 77.6% 196 of those pellet were inside the 20" circle for 46.6% Fliers and holes all over the pattern. The worst pattern I've ever seen in my life.

    1100 load/ 15 grains 700X, same components, same gun as above.

    389 pellets out of 420 inside the 30" circle for 92.5% 271 pellets inside the 20" circle for 64.5% One of the best patterns I've ever shot out of this gun, especially the 20" circle.

    I will be shooting 1100 to 1145fps loads from the 16 to 24 from now on. And as good as that 20" hot core was, might try some from the 27. Wayne
     
  16. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    wayneo , If you only shot one of each you learned nothing. Patterns from the same load can vary greatly. Do it again and you may get just the opposite result. You need to shoot 10 "patterns" to see a pattern and get accepted results.
     
  17. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    It's nearly a given that slower loads pattern better than faster loads. Have not experienced anything to the opposite. Try DownRange TGT12 wads @ 1200 fps. Works great for me! Patterns are very evenly distributed with no "holes".

    AndyH ;-)
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    I want to know which Cabela's sold Old Texas Marine 14 flats of shells for $49.95. I'll bet that deal is long gone.
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    wayneo

    You really do need to have at least ten patterns of each for a valid test, but you have apparently found out that the 1100 fps load made it all the way out to the paper. Try them out on targets and you'll probably find that the extra velocity was not needed. Sometimes the wads can make a big diffence at the higher velocities. My tendency is to load just high enough to work the action on my gaspipes reliably. My break opens get the lighter stuff. My theory is that "If you are going to miss targets, you might as well NOT get beat up doing it". :) Less wear and tear on the gun AND the shooter.
     
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