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Sparta and the state of Illinois

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by lumper, Apr 5, 2007.

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  1. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    The below is clipped from the Briley website. I find it rather scary that if Sparta and the state of Illinois would do something like this I wonder what they will do to the ATA if something pops up in a year or so because of something or other.

    Is putting most of your eggs in one basket like Sparta/State of Illinois a wise choice?

    * * * * * * * * * *

    Briley Sparta Status Report

    The Briley Sparta Shoot is on as planned. Their has been a lot talk about the Sparta shooting facility so I thought it was time for a little direct fireside chat as opposed to leaving the shooting community marooned with misinformation and fiction typically found in most internet chat rooms.

    Here are the facts; Sparta had planned to start construction of 24 skeet fields in late April with a completion date of mid May. This is presently being done and is on schedule. Sparta had also planned to purchase skeet traps for those fields. Every manufacturer had an opportunity to bid this contract. This process ended two weeks ago. A week later we received a little shocking news! Because of state budget issues, they cancelled the trap order, postponing it until next year. Oh boy! Now what? Pretty hard to have a shoot without traps. NSSA comes to the rescue promising to pull traps out of their skeet houses at NSC, offering to supply most of the traps required for the tournament. Because of the nature and cost of transporting so much equipment for that weekend, our tournament will be limited to 225 shooters-Yes, there will two practice fields available at all times with a total of 17 fields.

    There you have it! No doubt it has been very risky changing the venue of the Briley shoot. A risk we at Briley were very willing to take to mix it up a bit and meet shooters in a part of the country to which we never travel. So here we go, stay positive, shoot lots of hundreds, we?re coming north. Get ready!

    Thanks,
    Cliff Moller
     
  2. RBur

    RBur TS Member

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    I am not a skeet shooter, but I would bet there would be a way to put a Pat-Trap in a skeet house and make it do the job. There are a bunch of Pat-Traps out there doing nothing.

    The ATA could rent them out to the skeeters.

    Ron Burdick
     
  3. atagym

    atagym TS Member

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    "Because of the nature and cost of transporting so much equipment for that weekend, our tournament will be limited to 225 shooters"

    I must have missed something in Economics 101.. I would think that the more shooters you had the more money you would make thus paying for the cost of transporting equipment?????????????
     
  4. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Setting up the pat traps for skeet would be a monster project....
     
  5. RBur

    RBur TS Member

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    N.J.BOB, the only real difference between a Pat-Trap, trap machine and a skeet machine is the trap machine holds 540 birds and the skeet machine holds 675. The bases are the same measurements.

    Ron Burdick
     
  6. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I do not believe they are referring to the use of the Pat traps. But skeet machines that will be provided by another association.

    Maybe the Skeet association should take the lead of the ATA and purchase their own machines to be used at Sparta. Would eliminate the problem and with the possible loaner or two the field could be complete to all entrants. - Jim
     
  7. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Mr Skeet2Day ... I hope your not looking for an answer from Cliff, he did not post the above article, I posted it so if your looking for a response from Cliff its not coming unless he reads this board and responds to your inquiry.

    By the way I read it the buildings and all that were already in the works and in the process of being built but when the state realized and saw the costs to complete the project they canceled the order for the machines and said they would purchase and install them next year instead of this year.

    I'm just glad that a trustworthy organization stepped up to the plate for Briley so that they can shoot. I wonder how the state of Illinois feels about them supposedly building a supreme shooting facility, making a commitment (I wonder if it could also be considered a contract agreement) to provide a venue for the shoot and having to have somebody else come threw to finish the job? I can only hope that at such short notice that Sparta and the State of Illinois will step to the plate as well and reduce the fees to almost nil to help Briley defray the cost of having machines shipped in and the shipped back to another facility.

    If the State of Illinois will do this now because of money I wonder what will happen to Sparta in the short/long haul if the determine it is not producing enough money to justify the state keeping it fully operational and in good working order. Time will tell but I hope the beloved ATA is already looking at alternative solutions for when they begin to have problems witht he Sparta.
     
  8. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    The state is waiting on the skeetie assn. to buy the machines so they don't have to. After all they suckered that trap outfit into furnishing their trap machines. Then renting them back to them to use. Skeeters should be a breeze .

    Rock

    Jim
     
  9. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Rock - After shooting Sparta I truly believe we got the better part of the deal. - Jim
     
  10. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Jim,

    I won't debate the issue of Sparta being top notch because I have not been there, but figure the cost of the machines and then $3 per event per shooter and see who got what in the end (no pun intended) ... Who pays to maintain them trap machines that the ATA owns ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  11. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Hmmm ... if the ATA owns those machines I wonder what would happen if the ATA decided that Sparta was no longer the best deal for them and pulled the machines and went elsewhere. It has been mentioned that the ATA has a 10year deal or something with Sparta ... is part of that deal they must also leave the machines there for 10 years as well?

    I wonder who does carry the maintaince contract on the machines. If the ATA owns them I would bet that the IDNR doesnt really care about them since they have no money invested in them so ... who does maintain those machines?
     
  12. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I have no doubt there are provisions in the lease agreement with the State of Illinois but what they are is anybodys guess ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  13. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    I predict that the ATA will pull their machines and move to Las Vegas in the not too distant future!

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/smessage.cfm?messageid=1048139
     
  14. southpark

    southpark TS Member

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    I'm not going to join in this debate here, except to say that I hope the ATA is currently working to make a deal happen in Vegas for the long-term growth of the sport.

    What I predict will happen is that nine more years will go by and they'll tell us being in the middle of nowhere hasn't turned out too well but we don't have enough time or money to make a deal anywhere else so we are going to have to renew our agreement with Sparta.

    If they get the ball rolling now, rather than at the final hour which at least seemed to be a problem last time, might be the most prudent course and the ten year deal at Sparta may turn out to be an accidentally good deal/time cushion.
     
  15. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    There are more interests than those of the ATA involved with the development at Sparta. It would be interesting to read the contracts involved. They would be availably under the "Freedom of Information" act.

    Mining companies are constantly seeking better methods of reclaiming mined lands.

    Since 1978, more than 2 million acres of mined lands have been restored to their original or better condition, as well as more than 100,000 acres of coal mines abandoned long ago.

    Reclamation is required by both state law and the federal Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act (SMCRA). To ensure the long-term success of reclamation, the regulations require the coal company to post bond, ranging as high as $10,000 per acre, for the land it mines. Before the bond can be released to the company, the site must be returned to an "approved" condition and use, and remain stable for several years. The government is required to hold part of the bond for at least five or 10 years, depending on annual rainfall.
     
  16. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    skeet2day should be a politician, he says one thing and believes another ... The only thing he said that was right was he and those like him vote them mindless whits into office and that it sucks to be an Illinois resident ... WPT ... (YAC) ... "Former Illinois resident" ...
     
  17. FelixD

    FelixD Member

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    How can anyone or how could anyone, especially shooters, trust the state of Illinois? It's cross between a "Banana Republic" and Soviet style "Democratic Republic". Lies, deceit, clout, and organized crime control the place. It is time to stop being emotional, look around and actually see what is going on. Stop trusting anyone in Illinois politics. IDNR is in the thick of Illinois politics and the Governor will sell you out without on whit of concern or embarrassment. Rod has already sold out his personal friends, so why do you think you're safe? All he wants to see is the back of your head as you're bent over a table.
     
  18. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I just have to laugh...

    Illinois is no better OR worse than any other state. A politician is a politician whether from Alabama or Wyoming - if they're not kissing babies, they're stealing their lolly-pops! (courtesy, The Hunt for Red October)

    $hit happens, and it happens in every state in this union. So the budget fell short, big deal! Illinois still came through with 90%+ of what they promised to do - all you naysayers...

    As I recall, the ATA has escape clauses written into its contracts with the IDNR - if the climate gets unfavorable the ATA can skidattle. So piss and moan all you want...

    Jay
     
  19. FelixD

    FelixD Member

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    Nice pair of blinders Jay. I don't know where you're at, but Illinois is not Wyoming. Not even close. It's the big leagues. Also, it's quite unfortunate that you see one speaking one's mind as "pissing and moaning". That seems a passion of many on this forum.
     
  20. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Man I love this! First off I'm not a big fan of ILL., because of it's gun laws, but that said with the exception of the stupid FOID card(which applies only to ILL. residents) and the FINALLY approved CCW in OH., gun laws are about the same in Ohio. I'm sorry for the skeeters and DO think they are not getting what they bargained for, but since the ATA bought and owns the trap machines, that situation will not effect the Grand(or any other ATA shoot). Hopefully the DNR will come through soon. I DO agree with the poster who said since the Trappers bought their own machines, they may feel they can con the skeeters into doing the same. The contract with the ILL. DNR states that they may use the ATA mmachines for other shots, but the DNR is responsible for maint. on them. Yes, I'm sure the ATA will welch on a 10 year contract and head straight for Vegas! Yea right! and "Elvis" will appear live at the opening ceremony! Look, The Sparta deal may not be what everybody wanted, but it is the ONLY thing going right now. It will get ironed out. Like it or not we are going to be at Sparta for 9 more years. After that time will tell, but I doubt if the ATA can come up with the MILLIONS needed to build another home grounds in that time span.
     
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