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something I have noticed about gun fit

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by maclellan1911, Jul 4, 2008.

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  1. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    bought a PFS in march. I have noticed now that I have the comb up where I really like it and and hitting targets. I have had to shorten LOP by 3/4in. I noticed As I raised the comb the swing on 1 and 5 seemed to be affected. I really seem to be trailing behind the targets. Also when anyone mounts my gun they comment how the beads do not line up. So I ask If a Trap gun or shot gun is designed to shoot where you look. What is the point of the beads? Also on all my field guns I only have a front bead. They are so small and worn down from going in and out of the soft case. They appear to be useless. I dont know but for the exception of my slug barrel on my 870. I cant remember lining up my sights on my shot guns. Then I started shooting trap. I then had to go back to hunting style shooting to break targets. Then I got XT PFS and learned more about shooting where looking. just thinking
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    That's whats great about the PFS. Eveyone that picks up my Ljutic says "I see about an inch between the beads." But, I don't see the inch, I see stacked beads. PFS are really adjustable to fit the shooter, and every shooter is a little different. Once you get it right for you, it may not fit anyone else. Unless of course, you've got a twin the same size.
     
  3. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

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    Thats a new one on me. I have never had to cut 3/4in off a gun because of a minor comb adjustment. Could be that the gun was too long to begin with. How does a comb adjustment hinder my swing to the right or left. You are either making a good move to the angles, or you are not. LOP is certainly most critical with regard to the angles. If you guys would invest in a professional fitting session ..{PLEASE pick someone who knows what they are doing}....then yall wouldnt have to worry about do it yourself gunfitting...Or having a great revelation about how comb height dictates LOP. Yours in Shooting, Todd Nelson
     
  4. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

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    No doubt about it. A short gun mounts easier and moves faster. Great for doubles, I skeet, or bunker...Bit short never hurts. I had a little trouble with the Comb/LOP thing. Todd
     
  5. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    So you ask "If a Trap gun or shot gun is designed to shoot where you look. What is the point of the beads? Also on all my field guns I only have a front bead."

    Here is what I have learned on this subject over the past year. I am a new trapshooter and offer this as my experience so you can evaluate my answer.

    Respected guys like Pat Ireland will tell you the gun is supposed to shoot where you look and that he never sees the beads when he is swinging to the target and pulling the trigger. I really believe Pat and what he says to be true and at his experience level (I think he is an AA class shooter) this is exactly what is going on. I also know his gun shoots straight and he has patterned it to prove it to himself.

    My experience has been much different. I have a Browning XT that shoots 4+ inches to the left and patterns about 70/30 with the adjustable comb. It took me awhile to figure out it was shooting so far to the left and the patterning board and point of impact testing using Neil Winston's methods proved the point for me. That is with the beads stacked in a figure 8. I use the beads to tell me if I have the gun mounted correctly and not canted, cheek in the correct place on the stock (no visible distance between the beads) and after I'm set this way I'm good to go and call for the bird. As for the left offset, what I do now is misalign the beads such that the center bead is offset to the left of the front bead. This helps bring the shot pattern to the right so I don't have to change leads between right breaking targets and left breaking targets. It is also a pain in the neck (pun intended) to have to do this and eventually I will send the gun off to have this condition corrected.

    Having written all that, what I think you should do is head to the patterning board, find out where the gun shoots (hopefully straight) and how high your pattern is. If it helps you to align the beads before calling for the target, then so be it. It helps me to do so, but I am not an AA class shooter either. I suspect as my experience grows, my comments will be the same as Pat's - but by that time I will have a gun that shoots straight too.

    Lastly, trap shooting is precision shotgun shooting. I swear, sometimes I feel like I treat my shotgun as if it were a rifle and it is easy to adopt the idea we are aiming our guns instead of pointing them. For me, once I am set up and my cheek is on the stock, I don't really look at the sights, they are there and they are a bit fuzzy, but my focus is entirely on the target.
    The only time the sights are more pronounced is during straightaways or shallow angle targets. For the hard angles, the sights are not that obvious and the gun seems to go off by itself at the right time.

    Mike
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Once a gun fits you and hits where you're looking at the second bead is not required.
     
  7. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    compared to the oem stock, my fps is at its extreme end of adjustment. drop at heal and comb hieght are at there max. I found by trying other guns I prefered a very upright head and neck posistion. My factory stock even with the comb at its highest still did not give me the poi or up right head posistion I was looking for. my original stock is 14 5/8 lop and my pfs is now just about 13 3/4. As far as professional stock fitter, maybe in the future when I have the time and budget to travel. In the 2 years I was activly seeking stock fitter/ maker. I could not find one locally.

    I also went through Neil W. method and advice from Pat. Also rollins book got me to fit my self better. Doing all these things with my OEM stock gave me in sight and the ability to shoot better, but I found out how the OEM stock was limitted to fitting me with just a comb adjustment. Being short, left handed L eye dom, the PFS was my best solution for current time and budget. LOP was something I was limited to with the oem. I had a 1/2 pad on it. Maybe it was to long to begin with?

    Todd my comb adjustments where not minor, to get the high shooting gun I wanted from the XT I had to go very high. Factory drop at comb was 1 1/8th
    even at that adjustment the xt was a flat shooter. its now about 5/8 or so". I also believe a part of my fitting problems is my cheek to eye hieght???? Any way almost all the guns I tried with a factory stock non adjustable comb. I am looking at the back of the reciever. BT99s are the worst. I can see under the release!
     
  8. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I think Todd is right the comb shouldn't drastically effect your lop. The only possibility would be that you were crawling up the factory stock to get closer to the receiver. Straightening your head up did not change the correct lop it just made the distance from grip to nose seem longer since with a high comb you shouldn't be able to crawl up the stock.

    As to the beads: in the actual execution of a shot they are probably unnecessary and some of the florescent ones can be an outright distraction. I do find that they do help most people confirm that they are mounting their gun consistently and as a reference for the mount I think it's ok to look at them but not during a shot.

    Joe Goldberg
     
  9. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

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    1911,
    I digress. When you stretch a gun out that far, it sometimes requires a minor LOP change to accomodate. I was not aware you were talking on the extreme. Todd
     
  10. Timber1

    Timber1 TS Member

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    What I have a problem with is the stated theories as it relates to lop and swing speed. If a person is shooting with his or her body and not arm shooting, how can the lop be a factor? I personaly have found that a longer stock puts a better degree of angle on my elbows ( due to my slightly long arms), thus promoting myself to swing with my body and not arm shoot. I personaly cannot understand the physics of the afore mention theory of a shorter stock makes a faster swing ( unless arm shooting). Earnie Ross III
     
  11. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    i keep reading about swing the gun and i thought the gun was mounted and then the body rotated with no swinging.
     
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