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Softest shooting powder?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Browning Man, Jul 12, 2009.

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  1. Browning Man

    Browning Man TS Member

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    Well what is the softest shooting powder of the three, Red Dot, American Select or Green Dot for a 3 dr. 1 1/8 load?
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Green Dot®
    Smokeless shotshell

    * Lower felt recoil
    * Superior patterning
    * Versatile for target and field

    This is from the Alliant website. I also think GD would be a softer shooting powder of the three mentioned.
     
  3. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    If you run them at the same velocity Green dot will have the lowest "felt recoil" there will soon be some simple minded folks who come on and tell you all about how one can't kick less then another.

    What they are saying is true. However, That doesn't mean that due to burning rate the powder produces a lower "felt recoil". Friend, felt recoil is all we care about! This is what we feel and if others can't feel it then too bad for them! When you have absorbed as much recoil as I have you can detect subtle changes in felt recoil. I shot PB in Federal Paers with 12c1 wads because of the push type recoil and the softness that paper hulls bring to a reload( again felt recoil). Good luck and if you really want soft shooting get an auto with a recoil system with Federal paper one ounce reloads. That is soft! Jeff
     
  4. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    If the speed and payload are the same.. Despite what Neil says.. or my friend..EE.. I'm a recoil sissy..and Green Dot would be my choice out of what you posted.. but I personally use Unique.which to me.. is softer than the 3 you chose..

    At my trip to Kerrville..shooting my 19.6 Promo/24 gram shell.. More than 1 shooter not only told me.. but showed me.. their reloads which were also 24 gram at 1330 fps has less PERCEIVED recoil.. The true fact is.. the recoil in number is exactly the same.. BUT.. how we perceive it can vary.. Some of us are very sensitive and can feel the difference..

    All Good.. Mike
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Single FG blackpowder.

    Curt
     
  6. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    All things equal, the one that has the lowest weight of ejecta (shot plus wad plus powder.) But I doubt you'd be able to tell, reliably.

    I'm one of those who believes that if you did a blind test of a bunch of shells made with a bunch of different powders, with exactly 1-1/8 ounces of shot going exactly 1200 fps at the muzzle, shot from the same gun, nobody could tell the difference.

    Case-in-point (at least in my mind.) I load Remington hulls, Winchester primers, downrange XL-1 wads, and 1 ounce of shot for my singles load, with Clays powder, heading out at about 1160 fps.

    I ran out of Clays, but had some Titewad laying around. Loading the amount of Titewad the tables say will get the same muzzle velocity, and after much wrangling to get the crimps not to have an annoying little hole in them that lets out pellets, I went to the range to shoot them to see how they perform.

    I couldn't tell the difference in recoil between the Titewad shells and the Clays shells. Or in performance, for that matter (broke 98 in 4 rounds just shooting by myself.)

    I submit that unless you significantly change the shot weight, or the muzzle velocity, any difference in recoil is felt between your ears.

    BTW, for my 1200 fps 1-1/8 ounce loads, I use Titegroup.

    Go ahead...call me simple minded.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Again, people who can perceive the 3/10,000 of a second difference in the burning rate of slow and fast burning powders. But what really puzzles me is that the 20-40 ft/sec variation seen in the shells from one box of factory loads will result in a lot of difference in recoil, but these people are not able to feel that. How can someone perceive a tiny amount of difference but not feel a large amount of difference. Seems quite strange to me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Hey Pat....maybe if they loaded H4931 it night be softer "percieved" recoil?
     
  9. Big Al 29

    Big Al 29 TS Member

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    Green Dot per your post.

    PB if you asked me overall softest powder.
     
  10. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Hey........ Why does this guy above as well as legions of other shooters think PB feels softer? HMMMM.....

    My 300 Winchester magnum kicks like a .243 because it has a muzzle brake. It shoots the same velocity with or without the break. If what the "experts say is true" The laws of physics say this is impossible. That there is no way the gun can kick as soft as it does without lowering the charge or using a lighter bullet.

    Ray Charles when he was alive could easily tell between with or without the break on a 300 mag or .375 HH. I guess when you are recoil sensitive you can tell between 1250 FPS with PB and 1250 with 700x or Titewad.

    Anybody that feels some shooters can't tell the difference between two shells that are of equal speed, I would wager otherwise. In fact I would wager I could. Jeff
     
  11. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    "In the case of new shells with 20-40 variance in vel., this variance takes place after it exits the muzzle, where it is measured"

    Sorry Rick, that makes absolutely no sense.

    SuperXJeff, Muzzle brakes work on rifles because a large percentage of the recoil from rifle cartridges is due to the powder. Muzzle brakes reduce the recoil due to the burned gases.
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Outside of course.

    However I can't see how that changes what Pat said.

    Are you trying to imply that all these factory shells Pat referred to leave the muzzle at the same speed, but some slow down more than others in the 10 feet between the muzzle and the chronograph?

    To which I would say, nonsense.
     
  13. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    I have a SENSITIVE shoulder and when you compare the 3 powders at the same payload I can feel the difference.Green Dot has less "FELT RECOIL"Regards PJ
     
  14. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Funny, Rick, the Hodgdon manual I have says, "The only real way to lessen recoil is to lower velocities, or lessen the shot charge, or both."
     
  15. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Gary Waalkes, Do you bother to read threads or do you just post after reading the OP'S topic? The idea of a thread is that you read the whole thing and then add a comment that is pertinent. I stated in two places that the laws of physics say that the recoil itself is the same. That does not change the fact that the burn rates produce a different type of recoil sensation. I wrote on the topic in my very first post. I also mentione dhow those with simple minds would say what you are saying now and that the two things are not related. Not calling you simple minded but if you would read a thread you can add to a thread rather then restating what has already been stated. PS I took physics in high school and at the University of Oregon. I would still wager cash money I can tell the difference between shells of the same velocity with slower burning powder VS faster powders.Jeff
     
  16. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    Gary W: Yes, I have and yes I did. I fully understand the physics involved, Dr. Newton's principles, all that stuff. Think of a fast-accelerating car, a Corvette, and a slower-accelerating but still fast car, a Bentley Continental. If they both take off from a starting line at the same time, they might both top out at 160 mph (for argument's sake) but the Corvette will hit that 160 sooner than the Bentley. What you feel when your butt is pushed back into the seat of the Corvette will be more dramatic than if you're in the Bentley, but you're doing the same top speed in either car. We recoil sissies (thanks, Rick B) prefer the slower acceleration of the Bentley, or in my case, Green Dot.
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Maybe the loading manuals lie about actual velocity recordings!!
     
  18. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    The simple minded I spoke of have arrived. Jeff
     
  19. fritzi93

    fritzi93 TS Member

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    I've used all the powders mentioned, and several others. Intellectually, of course, it's nonsense to think that switching powders can alter recoil, whether you call it "free recoil" or "felt recoil", etc. Assuming velocity and payload are the same. In fact, the slower powders, requiring a higher charge weight, will inevitably have a slightly higher recoil, although the difference is minuscule.

    I admit, however, that GD "seems" to me to be softer, and have no explanation other than maybe the data is on the conservative side. [shrugs] I no longer have a chronograph and am not particularly interested in checking that possibility. It would however be interesting to know where that "soft-shooting" hypothesis (it doesn't qualify as a theory) came from.

    BTW, I once read a book by a former artillerist (Ian Hogg) in which he states that muzzle brakes work because of the "rocket effect". Unburnt powder and combustion gasses that follow the payload add appreciably to recoil. Divert some of that from the straight-line axis of the barrel and the rocket effect is lessened. And therefore recoil is reduced. Just thought it was an interesting way to put it.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well Jeff allow another simple minded opinion if you don't mind. I for one believe and this isn't physics. If I pull the trigger on the gun and am totally focused on the target I can't feel recoil at all.

    If I call for the target and my mind is focused on the recoil I will feel I could probably tell you all about the recoil of the current shell I am shooting. However if I do the latter I will guarantee you I will not break as many targets as I will by doing the former.

    So Jeff you do as you wish to do but as far as "feeling recoil" is concerned you won't unless you think about it. I don't and have no sense of felt recoil from Shot shells. If that make me "simple minded" then so be it but I don't feel recoil or the difference in recoil from one shell to another.

    To me recoil is a by product of pulling the trigger which in turn is the only way to break the target which I might add is the object of the game. Depending on how you word my last statement the word recoil could be anywhere in the statement but it unimportance can't be changed.

    Bob Lawless
     
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