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Small Gauge Trap

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Target13, Oct 19, 2009.

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  1. Target13

    Target13 Active Member

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    Hi Folks ..... would really appreciate a response to the following question I'm going to put out for discussion on this forum .......

    Would you personally be interested if Small Gauge Shooting was added to trapshooting - that is, 410 Bore; 28 Gauge and 20 Gauge ?? Would this be viable for gun clubs to introduce to get more people shooting ?? Using many of the Sporting Small Gauge loads and chokes available by numerous manufacturer's plus drop in small gauge tubes, do you believe there are shooters out there that might be willing to try a new, different aspect of trap ?? Why do you think an idea like this is good ?? Why is it bad ?? Is Trap only a 12 Gauge game ?? What if all Small Gauge was Singles @ 16 yards ?? Would you as a trapshooter try this small gauge, if certain major shoots had a Practice Field set aside and you were provided a gun to use with shells or drop in tubes were available for your gun (410's will work if mechanical triggers)?? Would small gauge trap be a viable alternative for those that are extremely recoil concious with the 12 gauge ?? Might this concept provide another alternative for gun clubs to develop new shooters and retain older ones ??

    The above are only a few questions that I might ask in considering the entire concept. When I asked this question before, I had responses from "why shoot like the Skeet folks"; "the trap game is meant to be shot with the 12 gauge only";"we already have enough trap games with Singles-Handicap and Doubles";" who wants to purchase new guns to play this "; and " this is a crazy idea that won't work". What do you think ?? Put your ideas here and let's discuss this back and forth - both Pro and Con.

    What is my rationale for asking this ?? Frankly, the shooting industry continues to look for more ways to attract both old and new shooters. The advent of Sporting Clays a couple of decades ago was a huge boost and stimulus to the industry because guns; ammunition and other supplies were sold to meet up with the shooters excitement in this game. Is now the time we need to expand our current games and look for ways to develop new shooters and help our struggling gun clubs?? Forget the REGISTERED SHOOTING aspect that this could be become if it caught on - for now though, look upon this as a new series of games that expand upon the great game of trapshooting -adding new dimensions; new shooters and giving our gun clubs another recreational shooting activity.

    I'm really interested in hearing from you shooters on this - this is not a joke posting - many are serious that this concept of Small Gauge Trap needs to be tried. Thanks for your responding and if you have any specific questions, please direct them to me personally.


    Phil Murray
     
  2. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    We've added 410, 28, 20, 16 to our off Sunday meat shoots. Scores aren't as high but the game is just as much fun.
     
  3. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    If the intent is to lower recoil, why not just have 7/8 Oz or 3/4 Oz events. That way a person would not have to buy new guns unless they really wanted to, or did not reload. If it caught on I am sure there would be factory ammo to support it.
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I've posted this before....<br>
    <br>
    There are some gals at my trap club who shoot 20ga, and by their scores you would never guess they weren't using a 12ga.<br>
    <br>
    When I had a pinched nerve that weakened my left arm, I found it fatiguing to hold up a 12ga trap gun for even one round. So I took my 20ga 1187, and fit a 12ga monte carlo stock to it. Didn't take long to get used to its lighter weight, and my scores, at least for singles and doubles, stayed the same. This made a nice 7/8ths scale trap gun.<br>
    <br>
    I've regained most of my strength and have gone back to a 12ga gun, but I still use the 20ga for sporting clays, and like it a lot. Recoil is very low with cheap promo loads, as it will cycle 7/8 oz 2-1/2 dram loads, which is lower than what an unmodified 12ga will cycle.
     
  5. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    I think it would succeed to a limited degree......for a big shoot..add a single sub gauge event and then just have it run with your classification based upon your singles average...trophies need only be Adults and Juniors...men and women would not be segragated
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    The 20 ga. has been added for trap for some time but using one don't cut one any slack for shooting one. Nor do we have a separate 20 ga. event and I doubt it would fly unless records are kept separate from 12 ga.

    If ATA don't keep a running record, it's a no go. Just as the handicap doubles went down the drain. Sounds like a fun game but without ATA keeping a running record, that idea died before it began.

    I wouldn't mind shooting a 20 ga. with 30-32 inch barrels for competition trap if that was the ga. used by all, twice the fun. Hap
     
  7. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    It would definately be fun, but I'd hate to think I was dead on shooting handicap with a 410 and just not having a shot pattern dense enough to break targets regularly.
     
  8. dbart1948

    dbart1948 Member

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    Phil - One of our local clubs in SE Wisconsin would offer a sub-gauge shoot on Sundays with a different gauge each week. As an example, the first week would be a 12 gauge event, the second week a 20 gauge event etc.

    These events were alot of fun, as shooters got to compete with some of their other shotguns. After shooting, you could purchase a delicious lunch and enjoy some liquid refreshments. Throw in the enjoyment of watching a NFL game (Packers)on television with your friends, and you've got a winner.

    Dave
     
  9. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    I shot my old H&R 20ga last week in the snow. I did OK.

    Jerry
     
  10. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Phil, I for one would definetly be interested in playing this game. Oh, I did Saturday before last. A gentleman at our local club has an annual small bore club shoot. The ones that seem to play the game have alot of fun. The 410 event is shot 25 16's and 25 from the 18 yd line. The 28, 25 16;s and 25 from 20 yd. Finally, 20 ga. 25 16's and 25 from the 22 yd.

    If you or another organiztion established a format as such it might finally give me a reason to buy a 28 ga. For upteen years I use my 410 for the 28 ga event at the local club.
     
  11. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    20 is already being used at the Grand by both adults and those under 18. So nothing new there.
     
  12. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    28 gauge singles would be a fun event. The Briley or Kolar 28 ga. insert could be used in your standard 12 ga trap gun. (or another excuse to buy a new gun)

    I doubt it would be popular at a big shoot because it would require everyone to bring another gun and loads, and the management would have to prepare for a special event. Would vendors have enough loads at the shoot? How about shoot offs? Still use the same catagories?
     
  13. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    One potential problem is that which is being experienced by skeet. Skeet's having trouble (at least at my club) attracting new shooters because to really compete you need all 4 guns - or a tube set.

    And then you almost HAVE to reload all 4 gauges because small bore shells are expensive.

    However, I've shot .410 16 yard birds just screwing around and it was a lot of fun.
     
  14. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I've shot all the sub gauges for trap and sporting clays scores aren't as high but the fun is there for sure. I'd shoot regularly with a small gauge if there were other competitors.
     
  15. skeet100

    skeet100 Member

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    One very positive thing I always here about Trap/Sporting is its one gauge to keep up with...one reloader and one good load...

    Now go and screw it up with 4 guages like skeet and see where that leads...

    You keep in mind I like them all but Skeet seems to be loosing the most members and declining the fastest..

    KISS method....
     
  16. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Adding special small gauge events as the larger Sporting Clays tournaments have done would cut down on some of the wait time. I think it would be a great idea.
    After all this is a "fun" game isn't it?
     
  17. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    We have Traps shooters all the time shooting sub-gauge guns. We were hosting some sub-gauge events including standard Trap targets, Wobble Trap and Low gun Wobble Trap. Great fun. Dave T.
     
  18. Target13

    Target13 Active Member

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    Great responses so far. I'd like to respond to the Skeet aspects that have been bought up regarding how the skeet game is dying. I will agree with the assertion that there is a conception that if you don't shoot all four gauges, you can't be a skeetshooter(registered). Somewhere we have gotten away from single gauge shooters and unfortunately, won't allow some into shoots until the last minute. As a "Skeetie", we have sort of defeated our purpose - we want more folks to shoot, but we throw up roadblocks to let them participate.Secondly, the game is NOT dying because you need four gauges to shoot, but it is dying because of the costs the gun clubs are throwing out to participate. $50.00 to shoot 100 targets ..... between mandatory purses and Refereee costs, all of a sudden a weekend of shooting is over $200.00 !!! From the gun club perspective ..... hiring Professional Referees at $100.00 plus per day and accomodations (unless provided for) put a gun club in a very tough position before the first entrant signs up. All these added costs have to be paid and of course, that is the shooters to foot the bill. Maybe it is time for many of the major skeet shoots to go to voice activated pulls and just have scorekeepers ?? Thirdly , the time involved to participate in a major shoot is crazy - it takes all day and then the shootoffs are at 7pm. Maybe we are shooting off too many places for All American Points?? Lastly, the game itself - some people just don't want to shoot registered and prefer recreational shooting. Couple this with the high number of perfect scores at each shoot..... ask yourself if you were a new shooter just coming into the game ...... might all this be a bit discouraging ??

    I don't want this post to become a "why Skeet is dying" post. I've simply injected my thoughts that I don't think the rationale that because 4 gauges has led to a decline in skeet, that trap would experience the same thing, if they tried it. Marketed correctly, I think Trap would be a excellent vehicle to add this concept to.

    I understand the rationale also that instead of 4 gauge shooting, why not go to a one ounce or 7/8 oz. loads ?? Of course, you don't need to purchase new equipment or ammo. What about all those that have small gauge shotguns/tubes or currently participate in Sporting or Skeet small gauge ?? What is wrong with introducing another way/form of clay target shooting ?? If we only attracted 1% of those "hooked" on small gauge, wouldn't this bring new people into our games and help the gun clubs with more business ??

    Finally, Small Gauge Trap - registered or not ?? Maybe as someone posted, this is something that NSSA or NSCA should approach since they have a track record of small gauge shooting. Right; wrong or indifferent if this concept will bring out more shooters; retain some and develop new ones, isn't it worth giving a try ?? What do you think ??


    Phil Murray
     
  19. Mismost

    Mismost TS Member

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    Registered skeet is slowing down and for reasons noted above, time and money. But, we have plenty of shooters shooting skeet at our club, just not as many shooting registered targets. Frankly, sporting is drawing in a good number of skeet shooters...heck it is fun!

    Small gauge trap sounds good to me....just because I don't like shooting 12 gauge! With my 28 gauge #9 reloads, skeet chokes, being late to the bird...I can push trap targets around the sky....you can see them move right or left! I think it would be fun to gear up and give it a serious try.
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    skeet100, you can't be serious. One good load.......for 16 yard, first shot of doubles, short caps, 27 yard, and Annies?

    I don't know anyone shooting one load except one box a week league shooters.

    HM
     
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