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Skeet, Trap Scores and the Olympics

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Jim Porter, Aug 19, 2008.

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  1. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    This will get the yelling started but I am serious and the Olympics is my defense or example.
    If I remember correctly Wayne Mays and another skeet shooter ran 100's and then shot 48 rounds and flipped a coin for a win. We had a ton of 200 straights at the Grand and it is not un-reasonable to run 500 or better from the 16. The long run from the 27 is higher than I can count. These are competitions not marathons! In international shooting when scores are too high they raise the difficulty; faster harder targets; time delays, gun down etc. I know you will say that 7/8 oz loads raised scores and they did but look at their overall competition. We are not in their league!
    I am proud for the accomplished shooters and they are still the ones that will win. BUT new shooters are are put off because they know they have to be perfect to play. It's all about perception. If the best can miss they just might have a chance. It's time to stop protecting averages and feeding egos.
    I've read all the ideas about longer yardages and three hole targets. One thing will balance the playing field without any field changes is a three second time delay in skeet and trap. Before you scream that it will slow it down too much it will add about 12.5 minutes to a squad of five for 100 targets. this is far less that the time devoted to shoot off's.
    Have Fun!
     
  2. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

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    I don't think a delay will make any difference. Once people get used to just looking for the bird to exit the house with up to a 3 second delay it will be same old same old. And I think the more accomplished shooters will catch on quicker anyway. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with there needing to be a change though. I think maybe there should be a vote from all registered shooters on maybe changing a few things to make it more competitive for the underdog shooters. Although we all have to pay our dues to get better.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I think the time delay will make the scores even better. Shooters will learn not to move the gun until they see the target. This will help shooter performance. HMB
     
  4. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Delaying the targets will not accomplish much. Returning to the 3 hole target, Adding speed and reducing shot charge will help. The biggest changes should be made in Skeet. If we could get NSSA to speed up the targets from 60 yards to 65 meters the Olympic Standard we would instantly have thousands of practice facilities in this country.

    TB
     
  5. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I'm missing something here. You say that new shooters leave because it's too hard to get good enough to become competitive, so let's make the game a lot harder. How does that make the new shooter more competitive?
     
  6. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    Trap shooting could be so much more fun if they added more variety. I wouldn't change the speed or add a delay. I would change the setting to wobble and increase the angles on the side and the distance at the back for those who like long shots.
     
  7. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    You have to stop comparing ATA and International Trap like this. American trap is a competitive sport for some and a recreational hobby for others. That is the tough hurdle the ATA faces. You can't make both sides happy about everything. Too many different viewpoints.

    Olympic Trap is geared to competitive shooters. Making it harder is fine. Most non-competitive shooters won't continue, some will. It will never reach the recreational level American Trap has simply because of the costs involved. I would expect a lot more interest due to the Olympic coverage though.

    A couple of posters keep saying it's ATA shooters' "ego" that is the roadblock to change. I'll call BS on these posters. They don't seem to understand that the vast majority of ATA shooters, not to mention the much larger number of shooters that shoot american trap in leagues etc., will never break a 100 straight. Many will never break a 25. They think it is hard enough already, and there is no "ego" getting in the way. I don't think many of these shooters would continue if they were shooting 12's and 13's all the time though. The ATA includes shooters from this skill level as well as the guys breaking 900 in shootoff. That is what complicates things, not peoples egos.

    Take that 3 second delay posted above - it would add over 3 hours to a large ATA Singles event based on the time he posted. It won't work for the ATA. The scale is much different.
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The 3 second delay and the low gun were part of skeet for a long time. The low gun was abandoned because it was too hard to enforce, and the 3 second delay was tailored for the low gun so it went too.

    I am teaching a friend skeet. He is a lawyer in his late 50's who has no shotgun experience to speak of.

    If it was more difficult he might very well go back to his air rifles and pistol shooting.

    Skeet is skeet (a faster bird maybe, but there are mechanical considerations.), but trap could be reclaimed to 3 hole and lighter loads would benefit everyone.

    HM
     
  9. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I don't like increased target speed. I shoot recreational targets in skeet, trap and sporting clays to sharpen up for bird season. Speeding up targets would only make me overlead every bird.
     
  10. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    My only proposal for skeet is to adopt the 65 Meter bird. Its only an increase of about 6-7 yards in distance but it would require targets to be a little more sturdy and the traps to be a little more reliable but it would provide a greater opportunity for the best skeet shooters in the world to compete on the world stage. It would also reduce the numbers of perfect rounds at major shoots. I once had this very same discussion with Ed Scherer. One of the questions I asked him was how many 100's were shot at a recent "World" Shoot. He said as I recall that there had been something like 35. I then asked... "how many awards were given in the 410 event?" He said something like 30 awards. I then stated you mean to tell me that 5 people shot 100's in the .410 and walked away with nothing? He did not reply.

    My point is that we can make some minor changes and reap a great benefit. Its sad to state that Skeet is an American game but in the 10 Olympic Games in which its been an event we only have 2 Golds and 1 Bronze medals. We can do better.

    TB
     
  11. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    There is already a game that is more difficult if that is what shooters want. It is called sporting clays. The target setter can make the game as difficult as he wants. I have started shooting registered shoots and have become addicted.
     
  12. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Ever wonder why sporting has become so popular at the expense of trap and skeet?

    Tom
     
  13. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I don't think skeet and trap can ever replicate the experience of sporting clays. I like the variety of terrain, the variety of shots, and knowing if you miss a target your day isn't ruined. I like shooting a new course knowing it will be totally different from other courses. I enjoy the 12 gauge events and the small gauge events. I still shoot trap and skeet every week. But if I had to pick one it would be sporting clays.
     
  14. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Guys...

    We have a lot of SC shooters coming to Olympic Trap. Guess where Glenn Eller the Olympic Gold Medalist in Double Trap came from. Typical ATA or NSSA targets are not tough enough for many and they seek out a greater challenge and since SC is not and probably never will be an Olympic Sport there is a tendency to gravitate to Olympic Trap.
    TB
     
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