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Skeet Shooters Speed and Lead Discussion

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jim Porter, May 22, 2011.

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  1. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    Overheard a discussion between some Skeeters (an they are friends of mine) a day or two ago. They were chronographing .410 loads. The guy on the gun is young and new to the sport and a pretty good shooter for the time he has put in. I kept my big mouth shut for once and just listened. He was extoling 1300+ loads. One of the older shooters said he might be careful about excessive speed as it may blow patterns. I agree. My thought was that the young shooter has not figured out yet that to break targets one must point the gun in the proper position every time. I was OK with everything that was said UNTIL he said that he did not like 1250 fps loads. He only shot 1300+ because it cut the leads down. I did not speak up but have been through this before. With a target moving about 35 to 38 mph at the break point of 22 yards, the leads between a 1250 and 1300+ load is so small the he would never know the difference. At best a very few inches in the worst conditions. The math is a fun exercise which I am sure he will not undertake. AHH to be young again!
     
  2. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Yep....the difference is minimal. I shoot a reasonable amount of skeet - carry B averages across the board - and .410 is my favorite. 28 is fun too, but with a .410 you can miss a bird and not know why.

    It will feel perfect, look perfect and NOTHING. Damn.
     
  3. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    Hell, Jeff...I get that feeling with a 12ga and it hurts my shoulder as well...Great fun.

    JON
     
  4. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    The difference in lead at station 4 between ammo that is 100 fps different in speed is 3 l/2 inches. So there is a 3 l/2 inch difference between 1200 fps and 1300 fps. I know I can't shoot that close. Not even in 410 bore. LOL. I'd shoot all gauges at 1100 fps if I could find the data on the 20 ga. and the 28 ga. and the 410 bore as well. It seems the 3 smaller gauges all have data at 1200 fps so thats what I load all 4 gauges at. Keeps everything the same. No difference in gun or leads. I just wish I could be as consistant as my reloads. Break=em all. Jeff
     
  5. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    Hell, Jeff...I get that feeling with a 12ga and it hurts my shoulder as well...Great fun.

    JON
     
  6. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    The difference in lead at station 4 between ammo that is 100 fps different in speed is 3 l/2 inches. So there is a 3 l/2 inch difference between 1200 fps and 1300 fps. I know I can't shoot that close. Not even in 410 bore. LOL. I'd shoot all gauges at 1100 fps if I could find the data on the 20 ga. and the 28 ga. and the 410 bore as well. It seems the 3 smaller gauges all have data at 1200 fps so thats what I load all 4 gauges at. Keeps everything the same. No difference in gun or leads. I just wish I could be as consistant as my reloads. Break=em all. Jeff
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Pink floral skirts, or earth tones this season? Hmmm...
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    That crap about different leads because of gun speed is just a bunch of mental masturbation.

    If 3 inches on a 30 inch pattern makes you miss, you're in trouble anyway.

    HM
     
  9. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    HM, Its only a 18 inch pattern on the idiot stick!!! But your still correct. No way to shoot that close. Kind of makes you wonder why some shooters want a shell over 1200 fps on 27 yard handicap. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I'm shooting 24 gram international skeet loads at 1350 fps (since that's about all that is available), and although it <i>seems</i> the leads are shorter, in reality, you still need a lot of lead at stations 3, 4, and 5.

    And I still miss behind the bird sometimes...
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There are more things involved in the lead equation than just fps. HMB
     
  12. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

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    But, how many people miss a target in front? Many reasons to miss usually checking the barrel. You may say its only 3 1/2" but how big is the target and how many times do you see a chip off of the back end?
    I agree you shouldn't have any problem leading a target 3 1/2 feet at station 4. It really makes a difference over 40yds. I do like shooting 1250fps 7 1/2's for fitasc and the longer sporting targets more for the retained kinetic energy.
     
  13. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Sptnclays - Actually lots of folks miss in front with the 410. But they've been told by the career Class B shooters that they can't, so they never properly adjust for that. Many also shoot under targets with the 410, but again conventional wisdom says you can't.

    But the biggest myth in skeet is that 410s "pattern better" at 1300 fps.....but only if you open your chokes by .002. ;)
     
  14. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Mrskeet....I would agree with your statements. but i've shown a lot of folks how to shoot skeet (to call me a 'coach' or a 'teacher' would be stretching it) - but I'm very willing to go out with anyone and show them the few things I know and help them enjoy the game and break more targets.

    On post 4, lots of folks are missing 4,5,6 feet behind. My favorite trick is to tell them to put some lead on the right side of the bird...I don't care if they miss in front of it...I just want to see the shot out in front. Typically, they call pull, swing waaaaay out front and pull the trigger...and the target breaks. the typical reaction is "that's how far I have to get in front of it?"

    I'll also stir the pot by saying that (at least at our club) the trap shooters have an easier time moving to skeet than vice versa. Not sure why, but my best guess is that skeet shooters try to put too much lead on a single at trap.
     
  15. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I believe the biggest advantage to shooting fast shells in the .410 is that they give you a little more recoil, so it actually feels like your shooting SOMETHING.

    I'd really like to know how many of the 1300FPS proponents have spent ANY time at the patterning board, or they are just buying into the more is better pitfall. As MrSkeet said, most of them are career B class shooters, so I'd take what they have to say with a grain of salt anyways.

    I know for myself I originally started out with a load that was 1250-1300 in the .410. I ended up, on a whim, dropping back to 1200fps, where I've been for the past few years, and the immediate result was better breaks and higher scores, so the "higher velocity is better" idea really didn't play out for me.
     
  16. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    1300 fps 410 ammo certainly is more reliable in an 1100. The Nutmegs always claimed that is why Remington jacked up the speed of their 410 ammo.

    I mentioned Nutmegs only because I can't spell Connecticut skeet shooters.
     
  17. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    The young man that Jim Porter speaks of is looking for excuses for his misses. He is what is known as a "Skeet Democrat" who looks for someone else to break his birds for him. He is responsible for his hits but someone else or his equipment is responsible for his misses.
     
  18. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Eightbore- thanks for the giggle :-D
     
  19. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Skeetman - Sometimes they shoot a single pattern and see what they want to see. One shot a pattern and said he saw a rabbit. I looked at the sheet and I saw a duck.

    See link.
     
  20. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    My program shows a 3" difference in lead at station 4 for a 100 fps change.

    The effective .410 gauge pattern at 21 yards is only about 12". So the 3" difference due to velocity is relative.

    Jim Skeel<BR>
    P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
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