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SKB vs RBL ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hammer1, Sep 19, 2012.

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  1. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    For those of y'all who have owned both the Ithaca SKB and the Connecticut RBL side-by-side shotguns, how would you compare the design of the two ?

    Someone was telling me that the RBL owed a lot to the SKB design.

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  2. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's not just a copy. A friend said RBL was a re-brand SKB.

    Perazzi makes complete guns for Churchill is a good example. Remington, Winchester, all have complete guns made by less expensive makers.

    Out sourcing in gun trade is no secret, but I'm really curious how much of the RBL were rally made in house as they claimed.

    Maybe someone could explain to me, why all the bargain priced models like RBL (or A-10) had a limited run? If they were indeed made in house as they claimed, what's the reason to stop production if all tooling were already set up at great cost?

    One thing I know, the initial set up for CNC production was expensive.
     
  3. twotimer

    twotimer Member

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    Steve, what you say makes sense, however, I own an A 10 American, and it is an extremely high quailty gun for the money! Mike
     
  4. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    Glad to see your feedback, I have an A-10 (loved it) and that's what makes me wonder.

    When was the last time you saw an American made sidelock O/U in this quality retail at this price?

    During my ordering process, I started to have questions, because I handled the pre-production samples twice, the quality was too great for this price, but I didn't like the laser engravings, so I asked if I can order one without their engravings, They said it'll be $5000 extra and 6 months more wait time.

    This lead me to think further the A-10 might not be an in house made gun.

    My reasons: They are a very small company. They are not making A-10 like Ford making Mustangs, neither the same fully automated production line nor similar quantity. How much trouble is to pull one receiver out of the production line (if there's a production line) before they laser engrave it at another station?

    However, It'll be very difficult, (if possible at all) to ask someone in Italy to send them just one receiver without engravings. Maybe that $5000 extra charge and 6 extra months wait time are just to deter any one from buying non-standard offering.
     
  5. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    I visited the factory and saw the RBL in production. There is no doubt in my mind that the gun was completely made in house. I own an RBL and an A-10, both Launch editions, with an Inverness on the way. These are fine guns, and from what I'm seeing from CSMC, by way of advertising, all three guns are still in production. We're very fortunate to have a US manufacturer making world class guns and offering them at such terrific prices.

    best....mike
     
  6. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    The RBL/SKB relationship had been discussed/argued ad nauseum on numerous sites. Forget it! They are toally unique guns. I have an early production RBL, and the only thing I would change is to replace the cheesy generic butt plate with something a bit more artistic
     
  7. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Someone else said the guns were shipped "the white" from original manufactories, CSMC does the assembling, fitting, engraving, and final finishing.

    I think if the gun was truly made in house, the receiver should be CNC'd from metal blocks in their shop. This is something needs to be verified by whoever visited their shop.

    When I was there, before I had doubts about in house production, I saw all guns "in the white" waiting for fitting. I don't remember seeing receivers been CNC'd . But I wasn't looking for it.

    Whatever the truth is, which I don't really care that much, only curious, I'm a proud owner of an A-10, and I think it's the greatest bargain at pre-order prices.
     
  8. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    I saw the cnc machining being done on our visit. Tony is very proud of what they are doing and was eager to give US the grand tour. I suppose the detractors are gonna tell us the Inverness is being sent by David McKay Brown in the white, and being assembled at New Haven ...grin

    Best...mike
     
  9. notquite27

    notquite27 TS Member

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    I have 3 of Tony's RBL's, a 16, 20 and 28. I have been to the factory numerous times and have seen the guns being machined, case colored, assembled, and tested, all in-house. I believe that they made limited runs on the RBL's to retain the resale value in years to come. There is not much exclusivity or resale retention when the manufacturer is turning out 25,000+ of a model.

    I've owned and shot quality side by sides for years and IMHO the CSMC RBL's are a bargain.
     
  10. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Good to hear this. Now I'm more proud of my A-10 being made here.
     
  11. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member

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    To be honest, the cost of setting up the CNC is not that much. Once the program has been written, all that is needed is the fixturing. I have got to believe that while not generic, it is pretty similar to the extent possible for the major machining. Once that is done, all you do is mount the fixture, stick in a block of steel, and hit 'GO'.

    We do this in tooling, and use things like 3R fixtures to hold electrodes and so forth. CNC is much less expensive to setup once it has been debugged and optimized. It is a boon to short production runs because of that. Some of the CNC houses I visit claim they can set up and run a job in under an hour.

    Pre CNC, the fixturing had to be a nightmare. CNC allows so much more to be done in one mount, as well as holding options, that I can't imagine life without it.

    So no - for those reasons alone, I am confident that Tony is doing it all here.
     
  12. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    In metallic cartridge reloading...

    RCBS used to be "King of the Hill" for making custom dies for wildcat cartridges. $500 for some die sets.

    Today, Hornady takes an electronic drawing from the chamber reamer maker and makes a custom die set for not much more than the price of a regular standard die product.

    .
     
  13. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    Personally, for me, the RBL has less drop at comb than the SKB. I like that.

    On the otherhand, both have too much drop for me, although the RBL is within 1/8" or less of being right for me, whereas the 280 is so low I could never make it work.....
     
  14. dls guide

    dls guide Member

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    I shoot with a friend that bought one of the special RBL sporting guns and it is a piece of junk. It has been back to CSMC's shop twice and now needs to go back again. It sure looks like a glorified SKB to me. The guy paid close to $7K for the gun and he doesn't have 2000 rds though it. I wouldn't shoot one if you gave it to me. Be careful.
     
  15. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    dis guide, could you please elaborate? I always thought of the RBL as an upland bird gun, and was not aware of the sporting model until your post, and looked it up; although there seem to be better choices when selecting a clays gun, in my opinion. Service issues do come up, but in my experience with CSMC, repair service has been very fast and without cost; actually on a par with Kolar's legendary customer service. So far as not accepting one as a gift; that seems to me, a little over stated.

    best....mike
     
  16. dls guide

    dls guide Member

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    We are in the Mountain states, so shipping to the East coast is a very big deal for us. Galizan's people have not been very good, considering this gun cost over $7 grand. First, the gun took forever to build. Then they called my friend early in the week to tell him it was done, but they were too busy to ship it until next week. Then before they ship it they notice a crack in the Stock. So, they build a new stock. My friend gets the gun and sees that they did not checker top of the vent rib. He is told that is how they do it. He shoots it maybe 500 rounds and it locks up on him. Won't fire at all. He sends it back and they fix that, but CNMC finds that the barrels have separated and need re-soldered. He gets it back and shoots it a very short while. It breaks again, I don't remember what happened that time. But he sends it back. They fix it and he is shooting it now, but the barrel selector sometimes switches on recoil and the Recoil pad came lose during a round of Sporting Clays and couldn't be tightened. I also shoot with a Doctor with an engraved A10 and that gun has been back 2 times for repair. These are good guys and the guns are junk. It is your money, spend it how you like. Galizan is not getting any of mine!
     
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