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Sizing dies on 800b too tight...

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Adbohlin, Jan 3, 2013.

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  1. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    I recently got my hands on an old 800b that a friend of mine bought. Ive been reloading on a 375 and have been very happy with it, but i am also now reloading for my father and its a bit much to use for the shooting needs of two people. Anyway,I took the 800b completely apart and cleaned in a parts washer and it really works smooth now, until I start to put hulls into the machine. It just seems super tight seating the shells in and again at the knockout. I measured the inside rim of the bottom of all the dies and it measures .802. I then called and talked to Bruce at PW and he told me that .806 is what the dies on an 800 should be. just wondering if the 4 thousanths is what is making the issue for me. Also wondering if the dies from 40+ years ago were made this size and if and when it changed. I also have a 950 elite and the shell carriers also measure .806 at the bottom rim. Thanks in advace for your help.
    Andrew
     
  2. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    I cleaned the inside of the dies with WD-40 and a 12 ga. copper cleaning brush wrapped in 800 grit wet sandpaper mounted in a drill. Mirror finish. Smooth operation. Mine had some rust inside, and out of the dies. Rotate in both directions. Everything on my loader had some rust. Took it apart, and buffed everything out, re-blued some parts, re-greased everything. Puts out the best shells I have ever seen.

    Hard to get used to having to do something every half stroke, instead of after one complete cycle, after using a 366 for the last ten years.
     
  3. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    You did not metion what hull you are reloading.

    Jim Skeel<BR>P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
  4. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    I typically load gun clubs just because they are free and load them in the 950 and the 375 that i have. But u are right I did forget to mention something about the hulls. I have tried gun clubs, AA, estage, rem nitro, and superhandicaps none will fit in the dies. the person my friend got the machine from had given him about a 1000 once fired Activ Great American hulls. they are completely plastic without a steel or brass end cap. these are the only shells to fit in and out of the dies.
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Did you measure the O.D. of a new shell just for Sh*t's and Grin's????

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    Yes the O.D. of a unloaded shell is typically .806-.808 at the brass. The resize of the brass usually isnt that drastic.
     
  7. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    Hmmm seems like i might have to wait for the "Whiz" to sign on to get the scoop...
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I asked for a new shell that typically means an unfired shell as in factory new.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    sorry read ur post fast and didnt see the new i dont have any unfired trap loads have a high brass #4 and it is .804, is that what new means Bob?
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    If you don't mind my saying, it sounds like your measuring tool or technique is off. I can't believe that a press the age of an 800B would have functioned all these years with undersized dies.

    If you're loading steel-based hulls you're gonna find that .004" is a lot for a ring sizer (die) to reduce the base. I have an older XT with a .812" chamber and a Supersizer just for that gun that's set to .808" because I'm afraid I'll break something trying to squeeze .812" hulls down to .807" with the dies. Brass-based hulls don't give me any grief but I find it necessary to resize most all my steel base hulls on a SuperSizer before they go into the PW (I use 900s).

    Keller
     
  11. sporting clay

    sporting clay Member

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    Lose the gun clubs and your problem is solved. I believe Rem. gun clubs are steel base which will be much harder to resize in your 800b. Use the same components in Rem. STS or Nitro's and all is well.
     
  12. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago Winchester sold an extra lite one ounce AA with a steel base. I used an old 800b back then and these hulls could not be resized on that loader. I couldn't get the sizing die to the completely down position and often, when I pressed as hard as I could, the steel hull would be so stuck that it took tools to get them out of the die. The steel based GC are likely your problem.
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    That to me says maybe you should call Whiz (605-341-4412) and ask his opinion.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. Simon Engraving

    Simon Engraving Active Member

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    aqndrew i to have 800b early early ser. # bought well over 40 yrsw. ago. i believe you r probably right about the tight dies. was shaking reloading bench all the time. called ponsness and said if i was remanufactering shot shells what did their reloads look like. they only state that the hull isheld in a full length sizing die. mike the shell before and after ill bet it will be the same. polishing the dies may not be a good idea since the bottom of die is were sizing ring is .if to loose hull could fall out at deprime station. ur best bet is to buy a mec re sizing press and do this before putting in ur 800b howard
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    My 800B had a hard time digesting promotional loads, I used teflon lubricant which made life much easier and pretty well solved the problem. My friend who also loaded on an 800B had a machinist polish his dies which also seemed to cure the problem. I sold the loader to a friend who replaced the 800B dies with later model short dies and said this solved his problem. I'm sure Whiz can fill you in on this.

    Surfer
     
  16. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    The suggestion to buy a Mec collet type resizer is a very good solution, I shoot an old 31 TC that is finicky about hulls doesn't like anything over .804. I load some GCs and that Super Sizer is the cats meow. Ross Puls
     
  17. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    Alright guys looking further at the sizing dies on the 800 and the one sizing die on the 375 I have; they both measure .802 at the ring on the base. The dies for the 800 measure .782 at the top and are 2 3/8" tall. The die for my 375 measures .791 at the top and is 2 1/8" tall.

    The die that I have for my 375 I got in a 12 ga tooling kit for the machine a year ago from PW.So in any case I have only loaded gun clubs on the 375 and have never had a problem, but seeing that the dies on the 800 are 1/4 inch taller and are roughly a hundreth of an inch tigher could possibly be the reason it seems so tight? Also the fact that I would be seating and knocking out on the same stoke as compared to the semi progressive 375, doubling the resistance?
    I had cleaned and polished the entire machine in a parts washer and then regreased the necessary components with STOS. Everything to my ability is clean including the dies.

    Also it doesnt matter what hull I try to use, brass or steel they are all too tight. The only hulls that work are the Activ full plastic, and the base near the lip is .795 on those hulls.

    I am stumped because of the fact that the guy threw in these odd shells. Could it be possible that the dies are from some other machine? Although they do look identical to the one from the 375 save for the fact that they are taller, my guess being that they are also PW.
     
  18. Adbohlin

    Adbohlin TS Member

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    I also have rolled the shell seating post across my bench and it does not seem to be bent, I think I saw something mentioned about that being a possibility.
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    GUn CLub's are steel based. Undes the best of circumstances all of the steel based hulls are hard to reload.

    Many of the guys are using a Mec super-sizer to resize the hull BEFORE they put it in their P/W.

    All P/W dies range from 0.802 to 0.806, but the latter is rare.

    I find it hard to fathom reloading an STS, Nitro, Federal, or other brass hulls are hard even at 0.802.

    Are the hulls YOURS? Are they out of YOUR gun? If they are pick-ups, then they could have been shot in an oversized chamber. Have seen that happen too many times over the years.

    WW
     
  20. Simon Engraving

    Simon Engraving Active Member

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    why ponsness put a long handle as leverage is required. gentleman this makes it about a 2ton press. if u dont buy the mec resizer or open the die resizing ring your other option is to bolt your reloading bench to the wall. howard
     
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