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Single Release vs. Double Release Triggers

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jon Reitz, Dec 26, 2008.

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  1. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Thought I might try to air this out here and see if some of you doubles shooters can help. I shoot a release for singles and handicaps due to a timing flinch I developed with a pull trigger some time ago. Works fine. Where I’m hung up is on doubles, occasionally flinching on the second bird. Maybe as bad as 3-4 out of twenty five when using a release/pull trigger setup. With a double release, it’s worse. I don’t flinch, but it isn’t pretty either. Kind’a like a monkey and a football if you know what I mean. So I’m somewhere between a single release and a double release, but really can't use either effectively. I do best with the single release, but those occasional flinches really take all of the fun out of shooting doubles. The only way I can totally avoid flinching on the second bird with the single release is to shoot extremely fast on the second shot, but that’s not the answer either as it causes other problems, i.e. dropped targets, etc.

    It doesn’t matter whose single release I shoot, (and I’ve tried several), the result is the same. I’ve tried starting over with the double release setup and I just can’t master it. Does anyone out there have any (serious) suggestions I might try?
     
  2. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    Lots (and lots) of dry fire practice with the double release. No one watching/laughing, no pressure to break the target. If you have to use a release for singles the odds are you need the double release for doubles. TJ
     
  3. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Just my 2 pennies. You already know that you cannot shoot a pull because of your timing flinch even if it is your second barrel. SO take the time to learn to shoot a double release. I was fortunate when I switched over. I line up body wise to be on the second bird then twist my body into a position just outside of the first which is pretty much a straight away. After I shoot the first my eyes then gun move to the second. This is my busy time and I don't want to be thinking about setting the trigger. Then, at least for me, there is a point just as I catch up to the second bird, when my brain stops being so busy, that is just perfect for setting the second barrel. Then as I get on the bird I just shoot it like a single. Hope this helps.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  4. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    TJ & Chip,

    Thanks. I'd like to hear from others, maybe on the release/pull side of the thing. I talked to John Allem Jr. Tuesday about it. Is there anything out there with regard to differences in release trigger design or adjustments that might help? My Kolar O/U can be setup either single or double release.
     
  5. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    As TJ suggested, one of Terry Jordan's wall charts would help. I found that when I went to a double release from a double pull trigger that I refused to go back to the pull trigger. After a number of doubles targets the process became "normal". I spoke with a number of good doubles shooters that shot a release trigger, like Terry Jordan, and all those that shot a double release said that they wished they had gone straight to the double release. Bill Malcolm
     
  6. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    You're among many. I'll bet you fan the second trigger sometimes and release it much too fast. The only thing I've found that might work is conciously setting the 2nd. trigger hard. I'm working on double release right now for the same reasons and it's a work in progress(maybe)!!
     
  7. Andy Ott

    Andy Ott Guest

    If I may make a suggestion,Take a lesson from one of the big dogs[Kay,Leo]they will give you the info you need,they all shoot them basically the same[awesome].The way I was taught was to release and set the trigger on the first target,eyes move to second target then gun comes last to second target.
     
  8. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    Jon

    I got a Beretta 682 Gold E Combo in 2002 (pull trigger). I had a flinching problem develop with a pull trigger. After 6 years with this trap gun the flinch started!!!.

    So, in July 2008 I decided to have a release trigger installed. I had to do a lot of sole searching (because of the cost, $495.00 per barrel) to go with a single or double release (?). The cost was the determining factor; I went with a single release.


    After a brutal learning curve going to a release from a pull trigger, I got onto the release very good; it is now a natural thing.


    As for shooting doubles, the release for the first shot and pull for the second shot is going, not bad. In fact, it feels natural and I didn’t have any problems. I am satisfied with the release/pull concept.


    One thing you should be aware of: If you convert a TOP SINGLE combo to release/pull, you must shoot the TOP BARREL FIRST for doubles. Normally you would shoot the bottom barrel first. You can not do this with a top single that has a release/pull trigger for doubles.


    Not trying to sway you with what you should do, Just relating the experience I had. The ultimate decision is yours.


    Good luck,


    Frank
     
  9. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Jon I shoot a Kolar also and if I am not mistaken the only people who make releases for Kolar are Kolar. From conversations with Mark I get the impression that there is not a lot that needs to be or can be changed on their set up so if you are talking different set and release weights when you refer to setup there is not much available. Good luck in your quest.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  10. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Try this. As soon as you release the trigger for the first shot just allow your trigger finger to naturally return to the closed position and set the trigger for the second shot. I'm never conscious of setting the trigger for the second shot. It's just release, release.
     
  11. JEB

    JEB Active Member

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    I had almost no trouble going from a single pull to a release, but with a double release, you could have put me on America's Funniest Home Videos. I dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times -- no help, and if I used a release / pull my flinch if anything got worse. Finally a friend suggested trying the double release when shooting singles and dry fire at a chip. This only works with mechanical triggers, not recoil set ones. I tried that for a round or two, and then moved on to shooting at chips. Without too much trouble I finally got the hang of things. Obviously I do that only when practicing and with the permission of the rest of the squad.

    JEB
     
  12. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    JEB wrote: "Finally a friend suggested trying the double release when shooting singles and dry fire at a chip. This only works with mechanical triggers, not recoil set ones."

    JEB,

    I would have to respectfully disagree. The inertia (recoil) trigger switches to the second barrel upon the recoil of the FIRST barrel. The trigger mechanism has no way of knowing whether there is a shell in the chamber of the second barrel or not. If the first barrel fires and recoils, the trigger immediately switches to the second barrel whether there is a shell in the chamber of the second barrel or not. Therefore, even with an inertia trigger, a shooter can still dry fire at a chip or an imaginary second target when shooting singles.

    Easystreet
     
  13. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Jon,

    Your problem is that you have gotten into the habit of shooting a release trigger at singles and then relaxing or stopping. You need to develop the habit of immediately setting the trigger for the second barrel as soon as you feel the recoil of the first shot. Soon, you will be able to set the trigger for the second barrel without even thinking about it.

    My suggestion is to shoot nothing but doubles until you have firmly grooved this habit into your subconscious. Or, as a minimum, get into the habit of setting the trigger immediately after shooting a single target. Once you've got your brain trained to set the trigger for the second barrel, then you can shoot either singles or doubles and work the trigger accordingly.

    As long as you continue to shoot mostly singles with only an occasional round of doubles, you'll struggle to learn to work the trigger for the second shot. I learned to work the trigger for doubles by shooting SKEET. Great practice! Give it a try sometime.

    Easystreet
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    My advice is shoot more doubles with the double release. After a little time, you think only about the target and the triggers just seem to work automatically. Doubles marathons are great fun.

    For me, a release/pull is better described as a release/flinch trigger.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to read everyones post in a thread, but it seems that it was pretty unanimous that you should set the trigger for the second shot immediately after the first shot. There's another reason for that: If you extend your finger to release the trigger and have relaxed it enough to keep it extended, you have probably relaxed your other fingers as well; and what you have now is a loose grip that will not control the gun the way you want. With a firm grip on the stock, your trigger finger will want to contract the same as the rest of your hand, and setting the trigger will occur with virtually no effort or thought required.
     
  16. BAYCITYBOB

    BAYCITYBOB TS Member

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    BOY THIS INFO IS GREAT,I TO JUST GOT A DOUBLE RELEASE. 16S ABD CAPS are coming along just fine,,,Doubles they tell is going to take time and alot of practice until theTIMING IS RIGHT..THANKS
     
  17. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    I went to a release pull, same problem with the pull and finally to a double release. Yes at first it was frustrating but now I don't even think about it. Pat is correct, shoot lots of doubles and you'll be fine. Jake
     
  18. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Easy street and Pat and others are right. Shoot a couple or three doubles marathons. Set the trigger as a reaction to the first shot. Just get your eyes moving to the second target and all that other stuff. It will get real natural quick. Don't worry. Triggers are easy. Its overthinking them that is part of the problem. Set it and forget it.
     
  19. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

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    I agree that if you are flinching , go to the double release. I believe shooting skeet is the best method for learning to use a double release, shooting either doubles or as report pair. In skeet you have to stop the gun and move much more to get to the target and it forces you to set and move. Also, you don't want to get a real fast release or you will shoot prematurely.

    Charlie
     
  20. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    Jon: This has been discussed recently. (Do a search) A double release is a difficult "sucker" to master. (For some people) I almost gave up trying to adapt. But being as bullheaded as I am; I just made up my mind to try to adjust. After at least 500+ rounds I finally felt I was making good progress. I shot skeet and shot doubles on all of the stations. (I didn't care about my scores). Also, shooting sporting clays helps a person to adjust also. (just don't worry about your scores) I just wanted reps with the trigger. Now it is becoming 2nd nature and I don't even think about it anymore. Think of it as using a pump action gun. Does one really think about pumping the gun between shots? Of course not. Believe me, after a "ton" of repetitions; it will come. Good Luck. Ed
     
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