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Since scores are alreadt keyed in at the Grand????

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 9point3, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Since all the scores at the Grand are already keyed into a computer, there should be a way for those same scores to be automatically sent to the Shooter Information Center.

    is this something that would be possible? It would eliminate a lot of work.
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    For record keeping purposes, the scores must be sent to ATA headquarters and checked before they are official. They are then logged in.

    HAP
     
  3. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    How long after posting do the scores become "official"? It seems like there needs to be a way to eliminate the double entry.

    I know when I was involved in college wrestling, the host team reported results to the National Wrestling Coaches Association via computer and that report was sent to the NCAA for official recording it could also be sent to media outlets as well.

    Sure saved a bunch of work. Is something like this a possibility? It would have to be spearheaded by the ATA

    I often thought Scantron score sheets would work as well
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Electronic reporting would work for ATA also but you know how change goes?

    HAP
     
  5. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Be careful Mr. Tweaks, you might upset the apple cart.
     
  6. flashmax

    flashmax Well-Known Member

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    It isn't that simple. Shoot management has to keep hard copies of the ATA paperwork, the actual squadsheets and other pieces of paper for a full year after each registered shoot. Each squadsheet must be hand tallied by shoot management for x's and 0's and any un-noted discrepancies on the score sheets/squad sheets have to be reconciled before the results are sent to ATA. By Pony Express or faster but by mail. Then ATA has to do it all again before it is entered into the database. All hand work. Could it be done electronically? Maybe. But how many times has either your squad, or a squad you are observing, had something go out of line on a sub event and and need to be corrected ON THE SPOT? Last weekend a new scorekeeper got a squadsheet turned over and recorder #2 event scores where #3 should have been. Shoot management had to hand transcribe the scores for the entire event onto a new sheet and had to keep both the improperly recorded sheet and the revised sheet ( with approval signatures by both Management and squad leader on both sheets ) together. What differnce did it make you might ask? Because of option moneys in the event. 25's options, 50's options, etc. could have been out of whack and money earned not paid or money paid and not earned.

    It is NOT easy putting on a shoot. I think we should all be giving the clubs and people who do their best to put on a good shoot for us a big hand and cut them a little slack when things get a bit off inadvertently. NOBODY makes a mistake because they want to get famous.

    Don T.
     
  7. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    When I shoot at Mason. there are signs at the scoreboards that all scores are final 1/2 hour after posting. Those scores were already keyed in once. No need to do it a 2nd time.


    The reason I bring this up is the whole Aussie situation could have been eliminated if scores when made official were sent immediately to the from the Grand to the ATA HQ. Could be done by the push of a send button and those scores could be immediately put into the Data Base electronically.

    I am not trying to make it harder, I want to see us take advantage of technology and make less work for shoot management and ATA HQ.

    It would probably take a whole new data base and data entry system that would prolly have to be on line and based out of Sparta where only shoot managers would have access to input but the membership would have access to scores
     
  8. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    No 9point3, that Aussie situation could have been avoided with properly filled out paper Average Cards as required in the rules. Secondly the person at the Classification desk at Cardinal seems to be inept at doing that job. You asked a question and folks in the know have offered you the reasons why things are done the way they are done.
     
  9. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Again with the "that's the way we have always done it" attitude and we dare not try to change for the better.

    grntitan, I suggest a concept that might work to make getting scores recorded in Sparta a bit easier and quicker and one guy responds with some reasons why it there could be issues and you basically shut me down and say the questions have been answered.

    Gotta love forward thinking!
     
  10. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Then Jefferson, step up and help. You can't just sit back on the forum and say "we should do this" or "why don't we do that". At some point if one wants changes to be made, you gotta buck up and get it done. Start taking the proper course. You have been around the ATA Registered aspect of the sport since '09. That's long enough to understand the chain of command and how stuff gets done. It's a great idea you have, it really is. So get it done.
     
  11. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    9p3

    A few things to consider . . .

    The computer scores used by classifiers at the Cardinal Center and other clubs is not tied into the ATA database. They are using a download of data that is provided prior to the shoot. How much prior I don't know, but prior none the less.

    Many clubs don't have computers and/or Internet access. Sure the bigger ones do, but using computers isn't going to solve the problems at all the shoots. And bear in mind that just because a club has computers, that doesn't mean it has Internet access.

    Even if everyone had computers and the proper access, there has to be a backup method in case there are technology issues. That's why maintaining your your average card is necessary. It's not 21st century, but it will work every single time, no matter the weather or any other circumstance that could impact a technical solution.

    The problem could certainly be solved with technology, but good technology costs a lot of money. Many clubs either couldn't afford or don't have the personnel to deal with it.

    I'm pretty sure that most shoot scores are entered into the ATA system electronically. I believe clubs can submit shoot scores electronically and they can be uploaded b the ATA staff. For instance, I'm pretty sure that the ATA didn't have a crew of elves entering the 30 or 40 thousand scores from the Grand.

    Scott
     
  12. zinger

    zinger Member

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    When someone argues with classification that they don't belong in a lower class or
    that they got yardage at the Grand, then this whole mess lies on the person doing the classification. He/she should've invested the time to listen and make sure the shooter is properly classified.
     
  13. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    And when the tournament director was made aware of the mess his responsibility would have been what??????
     
  14. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    If you remember right, the 1st post was about the grand. It would be nice to see it evolve into a sport wide system and over time it could. It does not have to be a overnight change. Just like voice activated traps started one club at a time(I bet there was opposition to those as well)

    I understand that the several different types of score reporting systems are not compatible.

    Did I ever indicate the dismissing of the paper card? Or a paper score sheet? I did mention that a scantron type system prolly could work (still paper) I am just looking to eliminate extra work and maybe make the system more stream lined.


    If the computers that are at the bigger shoots are not tied into the ATA data base, that is another issue. Should they be? I think so.

    Monday, I will be calling the people I know at the National Wrestling Coaches Association to find out where they got their system. I will then call Shawn Seippel in Sparta to see if it is something that would be feasible.
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    And the ATA delegate was where????
     
  16. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    9.3 why don't you compare the number of shooter scores as compared to the number of wrestlers scores that has to be entered. Are you volunteering or are you just the idea man as always.

    Don
     
  17. TjayE

    TjayE Member

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    BIGDON, what is your suggestion to the problem. I never hear any positive suggestion from you, just criticisms. Tom
     
  18. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Well there Don, last year there were 8900 male college wrestlers and the majority of them wrestled in at least 10 matches with many that wrestled well over 30 matches and some as high as 60.

    There are many tournaments every year that have 3-400 wrestlers that compete on 10-12 mats over two days. The host schools have to send in the results within 24 hrs of the last match. Some tourney software sends it in as it is entered.



    Like a wrote in my last post, I will be making inquiries.
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Tom if I was a computer wizard I make a suggestion of changes but as I am just realist I will continue to correct those who wish to make dumb statements about only a part of the system that we have. It is easy to set back and say we ought to be able to do this without knowing all the facts. What is ideal in some minds is total nonsense in reality. Take 9.3 example you would have to multiply his numbers by thousands to get the ATA numbers and the fact that it would not work in a whole host of small clubs. Instant is not instant in most cases.

    Don
     
  20. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Don,
    You are the perfect curmudgeon!