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Shouldering a trap gun the same every time

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by xringjim, May 4, 2010.

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  1. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    I'm interested in hearing from the guys here just how many feel that at least some of those missed targets are a result of not being consistant with putting the gun butt to the same place each time they shoot. I might have an answer to the problem. Just want to know if it's worth persuing. Jim
     
  2. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    I find that it is very easy, despite having mounted my gun "a million times", to mount the gun slightly "off center" and either not notice it, or figure that it isn't all that wrong, or decide that I'll "compensate" (shoot a little higher, etc.). This happens more and more as the day goes on, so that, interestingly, I tend to shoot my best scores on the first or second round. After that, I start to get lazy or careless or tired, or something. And need I say that we are talking about tiny differences - an eight of an inch or so out of position is all it takes to wind up with the gun shooting somewhere other than where you think you've pointed it.

    Anything you could do to increase the number of times I put the gun butt where it belongs (and I do know where that is) would be very, very helpful.

    Ted K.
     
  3. OGC Director

    OGC Director TS Member

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    There is no way you can bring home the bacon without a good gun mount. You can have the best trap gun in the whole world with the best ammo but it's all for nothing if you can't mount it correctly(time after time). Hard work and practice (proper practice) are the keys.

    Rich in Indiana
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I think most experienced shooters can tell instantly if the gun is not in exactly the right place on the shoulder and beyond that, getting that exact position is something that happens almost automatically. You don't sqirm around and/or go for a refit very often. Minor changes like raising or lowering the comb 1/16" are very noticiable.

    As was said above, getting that familure with your equipment takes thousands upon thousands of rounds of repetition. So tell us about this device you are thinking of that gets around all of that.
     
  5. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    The mount is more than just where it lands on your shoulder. That is important, but not as critical as the cheek weld. If you have a consistent cheek weld, you can overcome slight variations in shoulder contact.

    Of course, a consistent placement on your shoulder will assist greatly with consistent cheek weld.
     
  6. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Wolfram, not much need to go into it if people here don't respond to the quiry. Suffice to say, I do have an idea. And it can get you to putting the gun in the same place EVERY time. And more. So let's see if if the people here are interested enough for my effort. Jim
     
  7. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Rastoff, cheek weld is something that could be addressed by cutting a comb in such a fashion as to create a low spot along the length of a fixed stock. Imagine a slight curve cut in the comb at the spot at which you desire to place your cheek bone. No guess work then, right? With a precise fit your wouldn't incur any recoil from the front of the curve to your cheek. Otherwise, just take a small piece of thin cushioned sticky pad and place it at the spot of the comb you wish to always return your cheek to. Afterwards, adjust comb/and or rib accordingly. Jim
     
  8. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    Any kind of dishing out the comb will cost you in terms of recoil. How much it affects you will be a function of shot weight, shot speed, weight of the gun etc., but it will be more than a straight comb.

    I've seen many attempts to use some "tool" to ensure consistent cheek weld point. Tape, foam, cuts and even using your thumb as an indicator are different ideas I've seen.
     
  9. 4N6PE

    4N6PE Member

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    Jim-Sounds like you're anxious to tell us something about gun mounting and I, for one, would like to hear it. I think everyone agrees that it's the most important factor in shooting and the most elusive to achieve correctly every time.

    Ned
     
  10. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely essential.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Consistent gun mount is important. Dishing out the comb is not something I want to do. I do not want the comb higher in front of my cheek. This seems to be asking for recoil problems. With some practice at home, it becomes easy to tell by feel if the gun has come up correctly.

    You must use caution when practicing gun mount. If you are not careful, your attention will be drawn to the front sight. Then when shooting you can end up looking at the sight and not the bird.

    Last year I mounted an felt tip marker in the recoil pad screw hole and shot a round wearing an old shirt. This proved that my gun mount was not as consistent as it should be. I have practiced gun mount with my eyes closed and it seemed to work as well as mounting with my eyes open. I think I have even shot targets with my eyes closed and that does not work well.

    I can feel if my gun is not mounted properly. But, very often I call for the bird and shoot instead or remounting the gun. That is not very smart but I still do such things.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    There is one KEY to getting the gun in th esame place everytime. And it is the close proximity of the pad to your shoulder befroe you begin. If the gun only has to go a few inches, ther eis less margin fo rmisplacemnt. I hav ethis in pics if yo want to see it.

    Email me if you want to see the 4 step approach that campbell, Kiner, Gens, Demulling, Hoppe, Nora, all use. If you see it in steps, it is easy to practic e to tget it right.

    Jack
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Velcro.

    HM
     
  14. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    According to Rollin Oswald's first book, inconsistent mounts can be the result of not lifting your "trigger hand elbow" up high enough. The theory being that a low elbow doesn't create a well defined "shoulder pocket" to place the buttpad. I had this problem quite a bit prior to reading this in his book. Consciously picking up my elbow for a while until it became a habit pretty much solved the shoulder mount part of the problem. Last night in league the four misses I had were initiated by bad mounts. Not sure whether it creates an alignement problem (it does seem like I lift my head), but it does feel like I move the gun differently when the mount is wrong.
     
  15. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Of all the trap guns I've owned over the years, the ones that provided the most consistent mount were those that had a curved Morgan pad on it.

    It is a good design, I believe, that is sadly in need of updating. If more recoil absorption could be added, as well as changing the mounting plate design to allow for rotational adjustment, I think it would be the best pad out there for consistent shoulder mount/placement.

    Kiv
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Kiv- The Morgan Pas is highly curved-- for me it gives consistently low mounts on my shoulder.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. txkpistol

    txkpistol TS Member

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    What if you mount your gun to your shoulder and face the same way every time…..100’s and even ten’s of hundreds times the same way. But your mount is wrong. It’s wrong because of poor technique and or poor gun fit. What have you accomplished? I would say a very bad habit. Put your time and money into a good gun fit and a good shooting instructor. Then I would think you would have a consistent mount and more broken targets.

    On a side note…..I had folks mention that they practice gun mounts in front of a mirror. Has anyone used a video recorder out at the trap to record themselves shooting actual rounds of trap? I think this would be a valuable tool to help correct poor technique.

    Mark
     
  18. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was called a "Bonillas dish" after Dan Bonillas's gunstock.

    Pat, I like the marking pen idea. We all seem to know when the mount is bad. Very few of us have the discipline to remount. Thus lost birds.

    Jim
     
  19. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Pat, perhaps incorporating a better pitch adjustment into the Morgan pad redesign might solve that issue, too?

    Kiv
     
  20. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Push the gun away with both hands, then while pulling the gun back bring the stock to your cheek, and then slide the stock back until the recoil pad reaches your shoulder, If practiced this will always give you the same point of impact, every time. Be sure and lift your elbow on your trigger arm up, I use a level or slightly higher than level elbow. This will lock the gun to your face.

    I have needed a custom stock on my guns to achieve this. Mine are built by Phil Simms aka "walnutmaker" on this site. I am 6'3" and 220 lbs with a long neck, so the standard stock won't usually work for me.

    Tom Strunk
     
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