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Should You Take A Reduction?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by colobiggun, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. colobiggun

    colobiggun Active Member

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    I helped coach a 13 year old boy last year and he went from the 19 yard line to the 24 1/2 in just a few months, finishing with the highest handicap average for sub-juniors in the nation (the 4th highest all-time for sub-juniors). Since June he has not received a punch and has struggled from the 24 so far this year. He received his ATA card yesterday, and had a reduction to the 23 1/2. His goal is to make the 27 ASAP, so he does not want to take the reduction, but my thinking is that you receive a reduction for a reason and you should not let your pride stand in the way of the system. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this and some advice, as I am new to coaching and open to suggestions. Help me out on what to say and do!! Thanks.
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    The mind of a 13-year-old boy is just beginning to develop the ability to comprehend that what happened yesterday has a profound effect on what happens tomorrow. Any middle school teacher will tell you that. It's important to NOT prevent the boy from learning that there will always be consequences/ramifications to his actions, and no amount of telling can replace experiencing.

    Let the reduction stand and let it be a motivation to correct his deficiencies and work himself back to where he wants to be.

    Morgan
     
  3. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    At 13, his intent is to gain as much yardage as he can..the time will come when being competative will mean more then his yardage. Obviously, he has shot enough targets to prove his ability..his lack of wins in the last 1000 hdcp. coupled with his 16 yd. average shows he is entitled to a yardage reduction. His decision, take it or shoot another 1000 and prove the point.
    Please remember, moving foreward is not a disgrace. It just give you another chance to win that yardage again and in the process learn to be a better shooter. Break em' all!

    Big Jack
     
  4. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I went to the 24 my first year too. I passed on one reduction but I did not ever shoot well from there. I finally took a couple and am at the 22, but my buddies are now at the 25 and 26 and I can't shoot with them.
     
  5. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    I've discussed this with a friend who says he'll never take a reduction. My advice/opinion.... refuse a reduction once. If you don't improve and are offered another one, accept it. Being competitive is more important than being proud.

    ~Michael
     
  6. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Slick 13. That is the best advise I have seen on the subject. Personally I take every reduction offered. - Jim
     
  7. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    Handicap is established for a reason; to increase competitiveness among shooters. Most all individual sports are that way. I've seen it, especially in golf and bowling. While the various handicaps systems are not perfect, they do provide a means of judging ability from prior results.

    Most golfers don't move back to the championship tees unless they get a case of ego. Then they wonder why they shot 95, instead of 85.

    The worst thing about the thirteen year old, is his over-blown ego, and short-sightedness. He'll be far better off shooting to his actual ability, and it will give him a real life's lesson.

    Well said, Jim.

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  8. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I just accepted the first reduction offered me in 30+ years of shooting. From the 27 to the 26. And I need it. My handycap shooting has been in the dumps for over a year. I'm not going to let my ego get in the way of poor shooting. And I think a lot of older 27 yard shooters should do the same, if offered.
     
  9. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    I would tell him yardage is earned and kept with performance.It
    sounds like this is his first set back
    and could be a good lesson.To be the best you can be and reach your goals sometimes you are forced to take a step back or in this case forward to take two steps in the right direction.
    He sounds like some kind of talent and he should be proud of what he has accomplished.My advice would be to advise him to take the reduction and fight to get that yard back.I have coached many youth sports and have seen kids with talent and character use a setback for motivation to be the best they can be.
    It sounds like he has one heck of a coach as well.I am envious of him.Challenge him and I bet he responds.

    Darr Wilson
     
  10. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Based on his goal of reaching the 27. I think he should refuse the reduction. He needs to learn how to shoot at the longer yardage.

    Now if his cash winnings are helping to off set his shooting cost, then being competitive should over ride the goal of reaching the 27 yard line.
     
  11. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    There is a world of difference in shooting from the 23 and the 27--I don't know that shooting a whole lot more from the 23 will teach anyone much about how to hit from the 27 or the 26-25 yd line for that matter. There's more gun movement involved and more time can be taken to acquire the target at the 23 than at the further ydgs. Maybe he could try shooting a lot of practice only at the 27 if he wants to take the reduction--usually, most people with more than a few targets overall under their belt will be helped on their 23 yd. shooting if they practice from further back==don't ask me how it works but it seems to for a lot of people.
     
  12. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    Take the reduction, and I agree with FlaLagarto --reductions should be mandatory--and tripod yes you could shoot with your buddies, just request to be put on the 25 yd line, I believe that option was given a year or 2 ago.

    Trap-4
     
  13. trim tab

    trim tab Active Member

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    Mike is correct. Being competitive is more important than being proud or having an ego. See so many shooters who shoot from the back fence and have no business being there, but have an ego and will not take the reduction. I have heard more than one say " if I did I probably wouldn't get back there again". All you are doing back there is being a distraction to other good shooters you are shooting with. To many losts! Shot where you are competitive at and work you way back. If you don't make it to the back fence, shoot where you are competitive at and enjoy it.

    I think ATA should take a strong look at mandatory reductions.
     
  14. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    The real question is does the kid have the talent to shoot from the 27? If he can go back there and shoot 20s to 25s consistantly, he should not only refuse the reduction but he should send in his 25 yard letter and start practicing from the 27.

    If you review the shooting statistics of all the best shooters, correlating their early years averages at the 16 with their averages at handicap, it is obvious that after they made the 27 it took them at least 1-2 years to learn to shoot consistantly from the 27. Yo-yoing between the 27 and the 25 does little good for a talented and dedicated shooter who is actually slowly improving.

    On the other hand, if you have been at the 27 for a number of years and are averaging under 87-88 and never post anything above 93, you will never be a competitive shooter at that yardage. Accept that, enjoy shooting from the fence and never winning or start your way forward.

    BTW, the kid probably needs to raise his comb. Most people do when they hit the 23-24 or, he may be occasionally crossfiring at a level that hasn't been apparent at the shorter yardages. Review Phil Kiner's DVD.
     
  15. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Personally I would never allow someone who has not shot some minimum number of years the option of refusing a reduction. This is a perfect time to explain to him this is a sport where the goal is to win and if he is not shooting well enough then he needs to move forward.


    Once he take the reduction tell him he has got 15 minutes for a pity party then get back to leaning how to shoot better. He needs to focus on why hes not shooting well not why he got a reduction.


    Jerry Hauser


    Jerry Hauser
     
  16. cole-mitchell

    cole-mitchell TS Member

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    I guess i'm the odd man out but I believe recieving a reduction would push me harder to improve from the yardage that I am at. It is merely telling me that I need to work hard (put in the hours of practice) to be where I need to be. recieving a reduction is a great opurtunity to take a look at your mental game, and thinking, I am only 3 feet farther back from where I previously won. Just toughen up, refuse the reduction and work harder.

    cole
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Jerry,

    I don't understand why how many years a person has been shooting should make a difference, particularly given the wide variance in the number of targets shot per year by individual shooters. Either reductions should be manditory or not. I guess I'm in the non-manditory camp because I think guys would not shoot at hard clubs or in bad weather trying to protect an HC average if they were manditory.
     
  18. BAMA

    BAMA TS Member

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    My scores took a nose dive last year while I was going through Chemo. A week or so after I decided to give up trap shooting I received a reduction to the 26. There is no doubt I deserved it but it hurt like hell to finish my career on anything but the 27 but that's the way it goes.

    Bama
     
  19. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    JBrooks


    My comment was not well thought out.


    I completely understand those that don't want to take a reduction because it means if they wont be able to shoot with their friends. I don't believe in mandatory reductions however in the case of the junior shooter you should encourage them to take a reduction if they are not competitive.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  20. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    The whole ATA handicap system and what if any changes it needs is addressed at some length in the current Trap&Field. Some intersting points are made. I for one wouldn't like to see mandatory reductions introduced. I shoot from the 27 and reaching it was a proud moment for me...as I recall it was cold, windy and trying to rain and I broke a 92 for a 1/2 yd. punch to the back fence. I do not shoot as much as I'd like too, but health comcerns and distance from shoots governs that for me to some extent. I notice some good shooters I know who shoot much more than I whose year-end hcdp average is not too much higher then mine. And, I've turned down reductions in the past. I don't play any of the purses at any shoot. I'm strictly there for the fun and comradery and to challenge myself, and I doubt if a reduction to the 26 or 25 yard line would make a material difference to me anyway. JMHO.
     
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