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SHOULD THERE BE A PROFESSIONAL CLASS

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I have recieved numerous PMs on this subject.

    So vote YES OR NO


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Maybe - it kind of depends on a lot of things. I guess I'd have to know what it was supposed to accomplish. And why.

    If it were on "purity" ground exclusively , then, well, maybe again, but if the purpose were to turn losers into winners, then no, what's the point of that? Why don't they just turn themselves into winners, I ask.

    And would it work? I guess it would depend a lot on how the rules defined "professionals" wouldn't it? I can think of some shooters who can beat anyone here all the time and they are not in any sense professionals, so maybe to keep them from winning you would need a performance standard for throwing people out. "If you can shoot really, really well you can't play" or something like that.

    The most amazing thing I've learned in reading all this stuff about the industry class and so forth is no one knows what happened, who changed it, and why. There was, after all, a specific reason a specific event that lead to the change. What was it? Anyone? Martin?

    It wasn't my article in Shotgun Sports, the one, I was told, that spawned petition to the EC signed by, again i was told, by thirty-three industry entrants. So what was it? Anyone? Gary?

    Neil
     
  3. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    YES it will help the sport
     
  4. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I was asked to post the question, and I posted it, just should there be one or not, nothing was asked on qualifications. But I guess it was the shooters putting on classes and being compensated, that brought this about.

    A simple vote YES OR NO will sufice.

    GB
    DLS
     
  5. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    No!

    Surfer
     
  6. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    No!!, No!!, and NO!!!.
     
  7. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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  8. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Industry Class - Yes?!... Professional Class - No...

    Neil Winston - this inquiring mind wants to know...

    Jay
     
  9. racer

    racer TS Member

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    NO- Dan Ehlers
     
  10. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

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    Let it be. I want to beat Leo III, Harlan Jr., and Ray. I may not win but I want to shoot against the big dogs.

    Charlie
     
  11. djldb6

    djldb6 Member

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    I second Spitter

    Dan
     
  12. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    OK let's move all of the top dogs into a PRO class....

    NOW the next best shooters will rise up and take their place....and guess what... your still not going to beat them....NOW WHAT....

    The top shooters are good because they work at being good, they are dedicated and disciplined to win..
     
  13. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Yes. OR, provide a degree of difficulty, that at least most can agree with.
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Gary, another thing. I hope I'm not keeping people for answering yes or no but I feel it's my responsibility to put votes like that in a real-world context rather than the contrast between, let's say, the tea party and commies.

    I suppose votes will be mainly driven by responders' view the situation in ATA regarding handicap. In the class event we all settle for class (or are driven to category) since most of us know that that we are no match at all for Leo and Foster and their 900 singles.

    Here's the bad news, or just the news for those correctly motivated, that is, those who want to foster the good of the ATA rather than pocket chump-change by barring anyone who can beat them.

    This is old, from 2003 in fact, and I'll make a new one when I finish counting the pellets in ten (each)patterns from an 1100 shooting 3 dram 7 1/2 Remington, Federal, Winchester and Fiocci's. It's a test of what you many things you read here all the time:

    1. Tight chokes damage pellets and so lead to lower pattern percentages and tight forcing cones are worse until you pay $60 to correct the problem that no factory has been able foresee.

    2. Each barrel is a law unto itself and you just can't guess what will happen until you pattern one.

    3. There are likely to be big differences when you do pattern them which you never will do anyway since no one does but it's nice to think that that questions we are too lazy to answer can't be answered anyway, isn't it?

    But I digress. What will happen if we exile good shooters to the Eastern Trapshooting Association, where they will, presumably, be less of a problem since most are mid-westerners anyway.

    On other threads people have talked about 300 or I don't know how many but the point is, the actual number makes no difference. What does make a difference is that there are a lot of ATA shooting members who are very good with a shotgun. Way, way better than our average member. After all, only about 16 percent of us can average over 90 at handicap, and neither you or I are among them.

    Here's the full story:

    [​IMG]

    The graph does not do justice, however, to just how much better the top shooters are, be they on the 27, the 26, the 25 or on down. A high-average handicap shooter is not twice as likely to shoot a winning score as I am; he is ten,, twenty, thirty times as likely.

    Since the people who have learned to shoot, Gary, are clearly in another realm (Surfer, for you) I think I'll start another parallel thread:

    "SHOULD THERE BE AN AMATEUR CLASS?"

    I hope the response will be overwhelmingly positive and some Delegate will take it on, do the incredible work to get something like this passed, and make it possible to me to take a Chinese plaster bear with entwined snake, put it on the table at Metro, and declare "I won this at the Grand American World Trapshootng Tournament after we disqualified everyone who could shoot."

    Neil
     
  15. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Give it a rest already.

    NO!!!!

    Matt

    P.S. Gary Bryant you should have asked people to sign their name as you always ask. We then know who is voting. It is a forum rule.

    "If you want people to respect your submission please add your real name to your post."
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jay . . . no, no, no. No hints. I really want to know if anyone, I repeat, anyone on TS.com knows what happened and why. If they don't, well, what can I say? Martin will know . . .

    Neil
     
  17. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy a sense of humor - thank you Neil Winston!! No - no pro class, no industry class.
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    No. Without a doubt we certainly have professional class shooters among the ranks for sure! The problem of creating a professional only class of shooters is a severe lack of money from all directions.

    I third a portion of spitter's idea for an IR classification that's broad based on qualifications mandated through our organization.

    Then again, how to separate those IRs from cleaning an amateur's clock would be a monumental task today. Where would any prize/trophy monies come from to entice shooters away from the ranks? Professional shooters certainly wouldn't want to shoot from the lady's "T" as amateurs do? Knowing the outcome of almost every shot leads spectators to boresville and about as exciting as watching grass grow or paint dry.

    Now the North/South shootout at the Grand this year was very interesting to watch and even exciting in comparison. Specially constructed targets, thanks to White Flyer, made it more interesting to watch the smoke fly when broken! It could have been far more entertaining with shooting a more difficult target where the next target is in question whether or not it will be broken by the next in line!

    Hap
     
  19. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Neil,

    I experienced a 30 year layoff from shooting. Shot skeet earlier. When I came back a few years ago, I came to trap, the first thing I said was, what's wrong with the machine, it's not throwing any hard movers left or right. I was told about the game changes. I've been disappointed ever since. I shoot. But, I know the game could be better.

    scooterbum
     
  20. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I'm happy collecting my 1099's.....
     
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