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Should non registered, change your ATA yardage?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Nov 18, 2010.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    Should non registered shooting change your ATA handicap yardage? I was speaking to a few shooters the other night and this topic was brought up. Some of these guys are money shooters, travel to money shoots through out their home state. One guy listening in on the conversation, mentioned that a good handicap win could change your ATA yardage. Years ago, I always would hear that Vic Reinders would submit high handicap scores obtained from non registered events, and the shooter's name into the ATA in order to increase a shooters yardage. To be honest, I don't know of any shooters that ever really had their handicap yardage increased due to a non registered shoot win. Can this really happen, and should it happen?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    Yep.
     
  3. Butler

    Butler TS Member

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    yep is right, if the wrong (or right) person sees your scores
     
  4. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    It is called Known Ability!
     
  5. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    Falls in the "known ability" relm. Jake
     
  6. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Where is "known ability" mentioned in the rule book concerning handicap yardage?
     
  7. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Try page 22.
     
  8. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    Ask happy mec tweeks, a really good money shoot (beat all the wrong guys in an annie) and you could wind up with a few yards just because you proved you could beat their arses in the games.

    Bob
     
  9. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Another ATA BS rule like restricting your ability to get a reduction because of your singles average. Who knows if the targets at the non-registered shoot were even ATA legal or if the allowed shells were used, or if the shooter shot at a closer yardage than his/her ATA yardage? I never went but I heard about shoots during Grand week, when it was held in Vandalia, that there was a local club that held money shoots at night where shooters shot at their ATA yardage minus 2 yards. Who knows what the deal really was at some shoot where a good score was shot but wasn't registered? Just BS imho. JRM
     
  10. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Neil, Please help us out on this one.
    I don't know of any one person that ever got their ATA yardage increased due to a non registered shoot. I have heard this can happen, but I don't know of anyone that said it happened to them.
    Steve
     
  11. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Isn't that "known ability" rule for new shooters without an average? Non registered shoots cannot give you a reduction, how can it increase your yardage if you already have an average? Just asking.

    Wayne
     
  12. kansasshooter

    kansasshooter Member

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    So, if i'm a 24 yard shooter and I break a 100 straight at a non registered shoot, they're gonna move me back to the 25 or 25.5?
     
  13. old folks

    old folks TS Member

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    Your delegate can arrange this. I received 2 yds. in one year because of high 16 yd. average.
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    senior smoke just asks Hap MecTweaks it happened to him. This might help some of you who don't know the rule or don't like it or both.

    SECTION VI THE ATA HANDICAP SYSTEM

    B. CENTRAL HANDICAP COMMITTEE (CHC)

    2. Any Central Handicap Committee member may increase a shooter’s yardage at his/her discretion when applying the Known Ability Rule. The only other ATA Officers authorized to increase a shooter’s yardage are voting members of the Executive Committee.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    It's human nature to answer this question as most have so far, it's human nature at its best. From the top of the ATA chain down to the lowest links, we must do some serious "assuming" to justify this process? "Well, he beat so and so from that spot didn't he?" It just so happens that so & so has trained on (known angles/distances or on the concrete) and may be totally out of his comfort zone for consistent shooting anywhere off the concrete? His comfort zone is 16 to 27 yards and he'll hammer most all "known ability" shooters from anyplace on the concrete!! Answers to several other questions, (should always be taken into consideration as well?), but weren't when I was awarded my extra real estate in the 70s. I lost a lot of faith and respect for the known ability clause process when that happened but I have always loved to shoot and continued, possibly less than I may have. Is it better for our organization to err on the side of members or their assumed abilities without knowing all the facts? If we lose ONE member to an unfair assumption regarding known ability, our sport is the one that loses in my view.

    I recently lost such a long range shoot-off with a pretty good 27 yard shooter, Bill Whalen of WA. I got my butt handed to me via a score of 16 to 13 and the best man won! We shot off our singles tie from the sidewalk, station 3 is 37 yards behind the trap. Stations 1 and 5 being farther away due to the straight line. I did learn that my puny 1 ounce of 8s are lacking for such long distance shooting in that process though! Next time I will be better prepared by bringing a better game plan to a gunfight.

    Gene Hapney
     
  16. Titan Trap Team

    Titan Trap Team Member

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    Yes this is true, in April 2007 my son shot in a non registered shoot and won one handicap event and came in second in the other handicap event. He received 2 yards by surprise as we registered at the state shoot in June 2007. He did have the required amount of registered targets necesary for classifaction.
     
  17. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I remember when Stanley Bystrek, of New Jersey, was called to the classification building at the Grand in Vandalia. for a two yard punch, after winning a Buick the night before, over in Troy.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  18. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    I feel strongly both ways...Yes and No, depending on how "energized the people I am discussing this with"...hurts when we argue with ourselves. Regards, Ed
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Ed Y., that's a prime example of how the system works. This man's long time shooting record beginning in 1954 speaks volumes concerning his "known abilities" much more so than a one time hot day/night! Look at his real known ability then ask if it was justified? What were the shooting conditions when he had his day in the sun/darkness and what ammo/yardages was used? Looks to me like he was awarded the 2 yards merely because of his non-registered winning the car, not his true known ability as an ATA competitor? Who would've been the real loser if that man had quit shooting registered targets because of those two yards and what did it accomplish? His shoot record is all there for those desiring to see his true ability.

    Hap
     
  20. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I wasn't arguing as to if this should happen or not. Just giving an example of it happening at a big shoot.

    Ed Yanchok
     
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