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Should a gun be retired??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by starship, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. starship

    starship TS Member

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    My apologies to Slick13 for plagerizing one of his posts. This was posted in another thread (about the blow up of a trap gun) but no answer to the question. I found it an intriguing question so thought I'd copy it over to a new thread and see what others think.

    "I know trap is a high volume game, and there are guns with well over 100,000 shells through them, heck I've read of some with well over 200,000. But doesn't everything have a service life, and at some point every gun is going to fail? I know people want to keep shooting their favorite gun they've had for 30 or more years, but maybe there comes a point when an old gun should be set aside?"

    Agree or Disagree.

    Not being a long time trap shooter I was wondering if retirement for a gun is a consideration? I would think it would have sometniong to do with volume as I know there are lots of 30-40-50 year old guns in circulation but they are shot very little (if at all) and most appear to have been used lightly over the years.
     
  2. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I sold a DB81 to a fellow in FL. 2 years ago. Todya it is for sale at Cabelas in Hammond Indiana. I sold it with a .035 choke. Cabelas says it is now a "mod". I think it is retired. But it has become a retired to "travel"
     
  3. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Am I correct, the only part that would be subject to failure that could be injurious to the user or others is the chamber. If so would it not be prudent to get a new barrel or have the old one inspected every 100k rds or 10 yrs, whatever comes first.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  4. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    No problem starting a new theard starship. It's a question I've been meaning to bring up, and the recent thread about another destroyed gun is a good reason to start a thread about it.

    Personally, I think yes, there comes a point when a gun should be retired. What that point is? Damned if I know, but when you get above 150,000 it's probably time to start thinking about putting the old girl away.

    Now, I'm sure there are a lot of shooters that feel a quality gun should last a life time, and they should under normal conditions. I think we can all agree though that putting a 200,000 or more shells through a shotgun is beyond "normal conditions".

    ~Michael
     
  5. Mike Hessong* (MH*)

    Mike Hessong* (MH*) Active Member

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    I don't really know if there is a way to tell if a gun needs to be retired, unless it becomes so loose (when the fore-end) is off of it, you feel movement. I originally started shooting a Winchester field O/U at target events and after around 50,000 rounds, I relegated it to hunting duty. For a field gun, I think I "shot it out", but I don't feel it is un-safe. What some people might think are high numbers for a gun and you talk about retirement, for others, this might only be 2, 3 or 4 years of targets. Especially in trap shooting. I average more than 23,000 shells a year, but some of that is split between a couple of guns, but mainly a K-80 blued super-scroll. With proper maintenance and lubrication (not unlike what you should be doing with you automobile) your gun should last almost forever. If you have an upgrade competition model, just a few trunnions, springs and pins and such and you would never know the difference in a gun that had a 500,000 rounds thru it from one that had 10,000 rounds thru it. A good gunsmith is like a good mechanic; if you have one or finally found one, keep him, he is worth his weight in gold.

    The main thing I can say, is for the reloaders, never vary from the listed recipes of component manufacturers. Always use a scale to verify powder drops. And NEVER fire another round thru your gun if something sounded "funny". Check for any kind of obstruction before proceeding with your next shot, even IF you "think" you saw the wad exit the barrel. Don't shoot again, until you know it's safe.
     
  6. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    Has Kay Ohye retired his K-80? Changed it's barrel? Done anything to it?

    I don't mean to sound rhetorical - I honestly do not know. However, if he hasn't then you probably don't need to with a quality gun.
     
  7. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    If you do the maintenance there is no reason that a gun gun should not last for many many thousands of rounds. The Army has a Perazzi MX 8 that has over 1,000,000 and its still tight. I have a Perazzi SC1T that has had in excess of 300k and I plant to shoot it this weekend. Just had Doug Breaker re do it. Now if you abuse it with crappy loads and don't do the maintenance you could abuse it out not wear it out.

    TB
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Vic Reinders had over a million rounds through his Remington model 31!! Good to know we have far better metals and machining processes in todays guns!

    The only way of knowing in advance your gun may be un-safe is to have it X-rayed, both barrels and receivers.

    Hap
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Eddie, it may not with the accuracy an X-ray could. Hap
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Certainly, a gun has a usable life span, but we don't know what it is. X-ray of the barrel could help, but this requires cleaning the barrels much beyond what we are accustomed to doing and then an examination of the film by someone with experience. This is not something I plan to do. I have well over 300,000 rounds through my gun. I shoot a K-80 and use AA reloads. What could be safer?

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. Steven

    Steven TS Member

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    Xraying a gun will not show metal fatigue, however it will show porosity (Air pockets) "Eddiefromoverlook" is correct, but you need to add measurements (inside mic) looking for expansion. Magnaflux will only show surface cracks.

    Reloading shells should be done by people that have been trained (As not to endanger other shooters)

    I shot on the weekend and the guy next to me was shooting reloads, a "wanttobe" reloader. His shots were popping, fizzing and some sounded like magnums!!! He thinks he is an expert reloader. Two of us left the line. Spoke with him after and he said he's been loading for over a year (self tought)

    My point is most damage to guns are from reloads, from guys like I mentioned.

    I am all for reloades and support them 100% but only from people that know what their doing.
     
  12. Mapper

    Mapper Member

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    They may well wear out, but didn't Kim Rhody's Pgun have amillionthree through it?
    I know of several others with a half million or more through them. Some are semi-retired and some are not.
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Steven, are you saying that X-rays can't see internal stress cracks? Stress cracks that can't be detected by magna fluxing alone? I've examined thousands of X-rays in both testing welders and on the job testing where every inch of metal had to pass testing. X-raying can detect a weld joint that was applied too hot for the parent metals also. Hammer forging a small speck in a billet can create a long line of weak metal in a barrel blank if it's not discovered by X-raying. Most assume barrel stock is pure from the foundries, thats just not true in all cases.

    Radio waves can penetrate a weld or piece of metal that water molecules from high pressure steam couldn't begin to get through. When we built the anechoic chamber at EAFB, (B1-B and Stealth Fighter/Bomber test chamber) we couldn't allow radio waves to escape the test hangar, that may possibly set off bomb laden Air Force planes with the correct radio frequencies.

    As consumers, we place too much trust in someone else doing their job right when it comes to metals, gun makers included. Hap
     
  14. Steven

    Steven TS Member

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    Hap Mec Tweaks, Radio waves are the best, without a question.

    X-rays project a picture of density the darker the area the dencer the material...the lighter the area a problem may apply, X-rays are subject to pics. similar to a TV screen, than means air pockets or areas that are less dense will show up as a lighter image.

    Welds have air pockets in them, thus X-ray is a good way of detecting problems.

    Internal/External stress cracks can not be seen by X-ray due to the density has not changes enough to be viewed on a monitor. (In the case of gun barrels)

    Have to go wife came home and dinner is not ready!! talk to you later.
     
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