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shotshell bloopers

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by blkfin, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. blkfin

    blkfin Member

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    Would like some info on reloads. I've been reloading and recently have had a lot of light loads. Changed to AA super lite wads 1 oz in double AA hulls. Powder is Red dot with 17.5 grains and fiocci primers. Any help out there? Thanks, Mike
     
  2. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    From what i have read here , it could be the temp. and your primer choice

    Bill
     
  3. setter

    setter Member

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    Mike,
    Are you loading on a MEC? Manual or hydraulic?
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    With the possible exception of very low temperatures, light loads (bloopers)are much more commonly caused by a loading problem and not the load recipes. Broken wad guide fingers are common problem.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. blkfin

    blkfin Member

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    Bill I,m loading with a pacific 366 ,checked the wad fingers and they are still ok. I tried federal primers and did not have any bloopers but it seems like a lot hotter load now. I,ve also checked quite a few powder drops and they are consistent. Been using the old recipe for years and no problem. could it be the superlight wads. Mike
     
  6. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Are you using any seating pressure on the wads to make sure the wad is seated firmly on the powder? I use about 30lbs on my MEC sizemaster.

    Mike
     
  7. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I believe that it's your choice of primer. I have had issues with Red Dot, Promo, and Green Dot using Fiocchi primers in cold weather. Those are not the only powders, just three that come to mind as being recent. The loads were reasonable and supposed to develop a little over 9000psi. They worked flawlessly in warmer weather. I now test my loads by putting them in the freezer for 24 hours before chronographing them. Changing the wads did not fix the problem. Changing primers did eliminate the issue.
     
  8. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    Every year about Jan\Feb....

    Yes it is the Fiocchi primers that are the main problem. The only thing worse would be putting Promo in front of them, but that also depends on which batch or lot of Promo you’re using.

    You can add all the wad pressure you want, or crimp depth, and it will only gain you a few degrees. Save the F616’s for warmer weather- they can make E3 squib when it gets cold enough.
     
  9. blkfin

    blkfin Member

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    Quack shot, I used these primers before and had no problems. I wonder if the red dot powder is the problem. Maybe the batch was inconsistant. Ever hear of that? Used federal primers and there were no bloopers. My only concern is if the primers are to hot. seems like a lot heavier load using those. Mike
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If one primer gives inconsistent results and another brand of primer works well, I would not suspect that it is the fault of the powder.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    If one primer give inconsistent result and another brand of primer works well, I would suspect the firing pin. When was the last time the gun was cleaned?

    Darren Huisman
     
  12. blkfin

    blkfin Member

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    Darren and Pat, The gun is a new K80 so I would not think it is the firing pin. I would like to use the federal primers Because I had no bloopers with them. I can't find a a formula for the federal primers using red dot AA hulls and super light wads in 1 oz. The recoil with 17.5 grains using the federals compared to the fiocci primers seem quite a bit heavier. How would I find out if the primers are to hot and the psi of that load Thanks, Mike
     
  13. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    Mike-

    Your new wads are developing less pressure, even without looking it up would bet on it. The Fiocchi primers do not behave properly with lower pressure and cooler weather. It is reproducible. And if you think about it logically you proved it too.

    You have not said your temps yet but I have seen this issue as warm as in the 40’s. Others as high as 50 degrees.

    Call Alliant to see if they have tested your combination. I went back to Winchester 209's a couple of years ago because of what you are going through. Not as much recoil as the Feds and solid ignition even down to 20 below.
     
  14. blkfin

    blkfin Member

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    Cold Iron< Thanks for the input. The temps I started having problems with were below fifty. Guess your right. I'll try the winchesters and save the federals for the 410. Let you know how it works out. Thanks a lot. Mike
     
  15. BL350

    BL350 TS Member

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    Dear BLKFIN,
    Spent some time chasing a problem as you describe, weird muzzle sound and 'bloopers" I know that tipped wads will cause such problems. X-rayed some AA's years ago and never found this random problem, but the pictures were very revealing as to wad position in the case. Recently, I would have a bad muzzle report about every 100 shots. My wad guide fingers were in excellent condition and no signs of unusual things during reloading. I then tryed visually inspecting the exterior of each case for bulges, ripples etc. I tryed strong lighting at an angle and didn't find anything obvious.....I then tryed using a "Mini-Mag' focusing hi-intensity flash light perpendicular to the wad column area of the loaded case and rotated the cartridge until I could see the profile of the wad thru the FARSIDE! Just like candling an egg! After checking about 100 loads, I found one where the bottom base of the wad powder seal was tipped about 30 degrees. NGGG! Fired a few of these critters and everyone thought I was "The blooper King! Upon disassembling some of these, you could see where a corner of the empty case had caught and damaged the wad during insertion! My wad guide would stick occassionally and the wad would catch the edge of the case mouth. All my reloads since Jan 1st have been candled....no more bloopers. This method works on STS, REm. Gun Clubs, AA reds and most greys. The very dark grey AA's won't allow light thru. You saw this first on TrapShooters.com. I have helped two other shooters since then eliminate bloopers. A darkened room helps speed up the visual process. When you do find an obvious one, large amounts of powder grains will also be present in the cushion area of the wad.
    Respectfully submitted, Jet Boat Bill
     
  16. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    blkfin: I was just kidding about the firing pin. Yes coldIron and I have been down this road and yes the primers just are not hot enough in cold weather. There are actually a lot of things that will affect it but that only changes the temp before failure a few degrees. ColdIron's gun will bloop the same round I shoot about 5 degrees warmer than mine. That being said save the Fio's for summer shooting, anything about 60 degrees and above will work. Not to worry about pressure on 7/8 without getting crazy I don't think you could over pressure with 22 grains of powder. 7/8 just don't pressure as high as heaver rounds.

    Sorry I didn't mean to make is sound like I was picking on you, but I know a smile crossed coldIron when he read my post.
     
  17. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    blkfin

    I had good results and lower pressures using WInchester Primers or even Cheddites, rather than the Federals in some loads. The Federals are great in cold weather, but they can drive pressures up drastically. If there is no pressure data available, I'd stay away from them.

    I've had bad lots of powder. We had some issues with a batch of Promo a few years back. I've had some large variations with Red Dot as well. It's certainly not the powder causing the bloopers, since the Fiocchi 616 Primer was the common denominator for me with most cold weather issues. It occurred with many powders. Changing the primer to a different brand fixed the issues in almost all cases. It was repeatable using some 30+ year old Red Dot as well.

    Only one time have I had a cold weather issue with the wads. They were a popular Green or Blue colored Winchester Replacement. It ended up being an issue with the plastic compound the manufacturer was using. It would fracture in cold weather. Aside from those, the rest of the cold weather troubles were usually the Fiocchi Primers. I've heard of many people that don't appear to have trouble with them. I can repeat the problem on demand. Promo, Red Dot, or Green Dot in a moderate load at under 45 degrees over a chronograph. I've had individual rounds go under 700fps. I place the loads in the freezer for 24 hours and keep them cold at the range until fired. I use an infrared thermometer to ensure they are below 30 degrees when fired. I have reproduced the issue with other powders as well. I'm not picking on Alliant Powders. It's just that I have used quite a bit of them and have chronographed and tested quite a few rounds using those specific powders.
     
  18. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    Fio. 616 and Promo powder worked fine for me at 26 degrees for Turkey shoots this past winter. I did notice a little residue in the barrel much like the old Red dot used to provide. The shells had not been stored in that cold of weather and were kept in the vehicle subject to solar heat prior to using. Post-2
     
  19. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Jetboat Bill is right on target!, I have shot Fio 616 primers with all the major powders with absolutely no problems, I go a little farther with testing though, mine are in the freezer for about a week!, we have had weather here around zero, shot in 4 above, windy, no bloopers, the wads are your culprit!
     
  20. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    bigben: Can you post the loads you are using with FIO 616 that work well for you. I am interested in which powders you have had no problems with. I have had problems with Promo, Clays, E3, and 700X in straight walled hulls ( not been brave enough to try it in different hulls as it's expensive with shells bloop).

    I am just wondering what has worked for you and what wads you have been using.

    thanks
     
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