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Shotgun shell challenged?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JOND, Sep 23, 2008.

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  1. JOND

    JOND TS Member

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    Has anyone ever had their shotgun shell challenged at an ATA shoot because it was thought to be illegal under the ATA rules? JOND
     
  2. famill00

    famill00 TS Member

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    Are you pondering up some illegal loads?

    Forrest
     
  3. Tom Ruble

    Tom Ruble TS Member

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    Forrest, I think he is just asking a question. JOND, I've been shooting registered since 1969 and I've never been aware that someone had a shell challenged. I did hear once that a shooter in a shootoff, at the Grand in Vandalia, was caught using reloads in the shootoff. Break 'em all! Tom Ruble
     
  4. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    I suspect this is a little like challenging a engine in a race car at the local short track. If you finish outside the money you can run anything and no one cares. If you can consistently win, you are usually good enough not to need to cheat.
    I suspect the trap winners could shoot most anything and do very well.
     
  5. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    Are reloads allowed in a match? Any money shoots I have been to they are not. I seen some shells that missed the printer or run out of ink and they were not allowed. rick
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Would the shell be sent to an ATA approved lab for testing? I don't believe that there are any ATA guide lines in place for the testing of challenged shells. HMB
     
  7. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Money shoots I use 1-1/4 oz rated at 1300 fps.

    Curt
     
  8. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    ricks, reloads can be used in all of our registered ATA matches.

    I've shot registered since 72 and have only seen/heard of a shell being challenged twice. It was back in the old ATA concept ruling. One was thought to be using more than allowable shot charge and the other larger than allowed shot size. Both were thought to be ongoing potential violators.
     
  9. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    I have known of it happening twice in the 35 years I have been shooting registered. In both cases they only checked the shot and weighed it. Didn't say ANYTHING about the powder charge. I suspect that is about all any club would do.
     
  10. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Reloads are allowed at the Grand if I'm not mistaken.


    Eric
     
  11. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: Reloads are allowed at the Grand if I'm not mistaken

    If I'm not mistaken, It's only in the past few years that reloads have been allowed at the Grand.

    A few years back if I remember correctly, a few shooters were caught using factory shells that exceeded limits. Newer shooters and not aware...

    Except for one skeet shoot, never heard of shells being challenged.
     
  12. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    good shooters will win regardless.
     
  13. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I was shooting next to another shooter one day and he looked at me and asked "What the hell are you shooting because they sound like a bazooka" ..? I took a new Federal shell out of my pouch and tossed it to him and told him they were new Federals go and protest them if you want ... I have seen one shooter who was going to be disqualified if his score won because he was useing 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 3 1/4 dram loads, he didn't come close to the money and all he got out of it was a sore shoulder so they didn't bother giving him the news ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  14. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    Illegal loads should not be a major concern...after all, "sandbagging" (ethical score records) are generally not a concern for 99.9% of trapshooters, notwithstanding comments we have seen posted here. (OK, OK, my feeble attempt at facetious humor will draw some inflammatory replies...) Clearly, if "score manipulation" is a concern, those who "sandbag" would probably not hesitate to put in more pellets or speed in their loads. Best Regards, Ed
     
  15. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I think the game of Trap would be improved if the ATA and PITA reverted back to the old rule on maximum speed of 1200 ft/sec for 1 1/8 oz of shot.
     
  16. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    As I remember, a few years back, an established shooter inadvertently bought some of the new WW sporting clays 11/8 loads, unaware of their 1290 fps designation. I believe after finding out they were illegal, he voluntarily disqualified himself....

    JC

    Michigan
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    My oldest rulebook is 1982. I think it has the "old rule" MikeTMX is thinking of - "three-dram."

    Few will believe it, but today's rule is the same, not different. Twelve-ninety _is_ three dram speed for 1 1/8 oz of shot as defined by the only organization that counts, SAAMI. Not only, that, it's not for a single shell, it's the limit for the _average_ of a whole lot. To that extent, today's ATA rule is _more_ restrictive than the "old rule."

    Neil
     
  18. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Neil, I spelled out 1200 ft/sec knowing that in the old rule books it was 3 dram equivalent. The old definition of 3 dram eq was the amount of powder needed to push 1 1/8 oz shot to a velocity of 1200 ft/sec. I know about the "legaleeze" of the SAAMI definitions and all that but I am in agreement with Phil Kiner that the Handicap System would be better off with a return to 1200 ft/sec loads. The new "Handicap" loads give a bonus to the 27 yard shooters and are un-necessary for shorter yardages and have too much recoil for Ladies and Sub-Juniors. My older Reloading books say that 1250 ft/sec for 1 1/8 shot is a 3 1/4 dram eq load.
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    "The old definition of 3 dram eq was the amount of powder needed to push 1 1/8 oz shot to a velocity of 1200 ft/sec."

    That's still the definition.

    However, SAAMI has a +/- tolerance of 90 ft/sec.
     
  20. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Neil, I believe it was the tolerance that put the WW sporting clays loads on the ATA illegal list....

    Jim
     
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