Forrest, I think he is just asking a question. JOND, I've been shooting registered since 1969 and I've never been aware that someone had a shell challenged. I did hear once that a shooter in a shootoff, at the Grand in Vandalia, was caught using reloads in the shootoff. Break 'em all! Tom Ruble
I suspect this is a little like challenging a engine in a race car at the local short track. If you finish outside the money you can run anything and no one cares. If you can consistently win, you are usually good enough not to need to cheat.
I suspect the trap winners could shoot most anything and do very well.
Are reloads allowed in a match? Any money shoots I have been to they are not. I seen some shells that missed the printer or run out of ink and they were not allowed. rick
Would the shell be sent to an ATA approved lab for testing? I don't believe that there are any ATA guide lines in place for the testing of challenged shells. HMB
ricks, reloads can be used in all of our registered ATA matches.
I've shot registered since 72 and have only seen/heard of a shell being challenged twice. It was back in the old ATA concept ruling. One was thought to be using more than allowable shot charge and the other larger than allowed shot size. Both were thought to be ongoing potential violators.
I have known of it happening twice in the 35 years I have been shooting registered. In both cases they only checked the shot and weighed it. Didn't say ANYTHING about the powder charge. I suspect that is about all any club would do.
I was shooting next to another shooter one day and he looked at me and asked "What the hell are you shooting because they sound like a bazooka" ..? I took a new Federal shell out of my pouch and tossed it to him and told him they were new Federals go and protest them if you want ... I have seen one shooter who was going to be disqualified if his score won because he was useing 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 3 1/4 dram loads, he didn't come close to the money and all he got out of it was a sore shoulder so they didn't bother giving him the news ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Illegal loads should not be a major concern...after all, "sandbagging" (ethical score records) are generally not a concern for 99.9% of trapshooters, notwithstanding comments we have seen posted here. (OK, OK, my feeble attempt at facetious humor will draw some inflammatory replies...) Clearly, if "score manipulation" is a concern, those who "sandbag" would probably not hesitate to put in more pellets or speed in their loads. Best Regards, Ed
As I remember, a few years back, an established shooter inadvertently bought some of the new WW sporting clays 11/8 loads, unaware of their 1290 fps designation. I believe after finding out they were illegal, he voluntarily disqualified himself....
My oldest rulebook is 1982. I think it has the "old rule" MikeTMX is thinking of - "three-dram."
Few will believe it, but today's rule is the same, not different. Twelve-ninety _is_ three dram speed for 1 1/8 oz of shot as defined by the only organization that counts, SAAMI. Not only, that, it's not for a single shell, it's the limit for the _average_ of a whole lot. To that extent, today's ATA rule is _more_ restrictive than the "old rule."
Neil, I spelled out 1200 ft/sec knowing that in the old rule books it was 3 dram equivalent. The old definition of 3 dram eq was the amount of powder needed to push 1 1/8 oz shot to a velocity of 1200 ft/sec. I know about the "legaleeze" of the SAAMI definitions and all that but I am in agreement with Phil Kiner that the Handicap System would be better off with a return to 1200 ft/sec loads. The new "Handicap" loads give a bonus to the 27 yard shooters and are un-necessary for shorter yardages and have too much recoil for Ladies and Sub-Juniors. My older Reloading books say that 1250 ft/sec for 1 1/8 shot is a 3 1/4 dram eq load.
An Ohio shooter from Cinn. broke 200 in the preliminary days using new shells. He shoot reloads in the shoot off and said he tought he just had to have new shells for the event. I can't remember his name, his son shoots in Calif. now. I had a referee check me at the Grand once. I had a box come apart and put green shells in a red box and he assumed they were reloads.
according to the rule book the last couple years reloads are allowed at the Grand etc now and I think the specs were, 1 1/8oz not over 1250, 1oz not over 1300, 7/8oz not over 1350. if that isn't exact it is very close.
How can you challenge a shell without the gun as well?? Different bore dimensions affect velocity. The shell may be fine in my gun but way too fast in yours. I have seen it over the Chrono screens with my own reloads out of two different gun on the same day. All you can check is shot size and shot payload total weight.
3. Any load with a velocity greater than 1290 FPS (Feet Per Second)
with maximum shot charge of 1 1/8 ounces, or 1325 FPS with a
maximum shot charge of 1 ounce, or 1350 FPS with a maximum
shot charge of 7/8 ounces or less, as measured in any individual
shotshell. These velocities are maximum and no individual shotshell
shall exceed these limits for the designated shot charge. In addition,
no load containing more than 1 1/8 ounces or any shot larger than
Number 7 1/2 can be used. Shot charges are maximum and no
charge may exceed the charge amount by more than 3%.
Gauge: 12
Shell Length: 2-3/4
Velocity (in.): 1300
Powder Dram Equiv: NA
Shot Size: 8
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