1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Shotgun expulsion oveturned

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bushmaster1313, Jan 24, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    School explusion for boy who had shotguns off of school property overturned.

    Anyone know if and why what the boy did was legal?
     
  2. dimapower

    dimapower Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    226
    He did not break any laws. Morevover, he knew that guns were not allowed on school property, so he purposely parked off campus and walked.

    F-in principle has no common sense in this case. He is contemplating an appeal. Trying to find his e-mail, so I can share my opinion.
     
  3. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    In NJ you cannot keep any gun in your car unless you are actually driving to the range or the hunting lands.
    What state was this kid in and how was he allowed to keep gun on public street?

    How was he caught?
     
  4. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    As a retired principal I want to give you the other side of the story. If you watch the video you will see that the boy has been in trouble many times before so there is obviously some concern with his behavior. \

    Next a student walks in to your office and says he knows "Jimmy" has guns in his car and is bragging about them around school. Principal calls police and the car is searched, guns are found. Now the rumors start flying. Kids are saying "Jimmy" told them he was going to shoot a couple kids that are making fun of him. Now you have threats against a student. Our society has demanded zero tolerance for threats or weapons. This isn't something the school board dreamed up on their own, it was demanded by parents. The principal's hands are tied. He has no latitude. Remember Zero tolerance.

    This is all brought on by the students who have walked into schools around our country and killed one kid after another. Then the public says the administration did nothing to protect their children. The school is in a can't win situation. If he parks a few feet off of school grounds and walks into school and starts running his mouth (the only way the school could have found out about the guns), then we do nothing.

    None of us know all the particulars in this case because the school is not allowed to tell you the boys past record, he is a minor remember. It could be that the boy was in a fight the week before and threatened to kill the boy. They wouldn't be allowed to let that out.

    All I'm saying is that there is probably much more here than meets the eye. Most Principals I know do everything in their power to keep kids in school. The public has to decide where you want the line drawn to keep the kids safe. Just think about the kids at Columbine H.S. On the other hand, if the kid was going fabbit hunting with hi dad after school then that should have been taken into consideration as well. From the information given we just don't know.
     
  5. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,311
    esetter, what kinda gun do ya need to go fabbit hunting? Just curious.

    And, how do ya know to believe the kid that walked into the office and started blabbing? He might just have a grudge against "Jimmy".
     
  6. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    But how is it legal to leave gun in car?
     
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,403
    Why should it be illegal? That is YOUR car, and a legal gun in your car should NOT be a problem. The illegality occurs when someone attempts to take your gun from your car. Liberal NJ politicians need to be voted out. It should not be illegal for you to have your legal gun in your car. Period.


    I would not live in NJ either.
     
  8. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    Kalifornia has strict gun laws. Is it legal there to drive around with shotgun in car?
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    esetter Just so some of us can understand you want us to know that the car is not on school property but the Principal can have it search on his say so.

    "Principal calls police and the car is searched, guns are found."

    The student is not charged with a crime. Yet the school system feel they have a right to expel this student for not breaking any laws. Or for not violating the Zero tolerance policy by bring firearm on school property.

    So tell us just how far does the schools authority reach on their policy

    "Remember Zero tolerance."

    Tolerance to what a student having a gun anywhere in the country or maybe just the state or is it county, maybe only the town/city.

    Just what are the boundaries on Zero tolerance. The only thing I see Zero tolerance doing is the long term destruction of the second amendment. The zero tolerance policy is just another way to absolve the parents of their responsibility.

    "This isn't something the school board dreamed up on their own, it was demanded by parents. The principal's hands are tied."

    They demanded it so they don't have to oversee their child's behavior. Thats the bottom line here this student was being blamed for something that he hasn't been proved guilty of. The Principal hands are tied yet he is saying appeal the decision. Right please help me understand how you can even hit that this is right in a free America.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bushmaster1313- I suspect that in most states, it is legal to have a gun in the car, especially if it is in a case and not readily accessible to the driver and the driver is not a convected felon.

    In many states, it is common to see uncased guns in a pick up hanging on a rack clearly visible through the back window.

    esetter- Your post makes much sense to me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    Pat

    In some states, I think PA is one, it is only legal if it IS in sight, hence the gun racks in pickups!
     
  12. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,474
    esetter, you sound like Obmbam, you don't know the facts but you sure did go to the defense of the Principle and develop all kinds of scenarios. JRM
     
  13. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    453
    Hey perga1, read esetters post again. He said pretty plainly WE don't know all the facts here, he was just speculating on a few possibilities or probabilities. The man makes sense, or maybe that's what's troubling you. He didn't rant... Jeez, think a little before you hit the keyboard.
     
  14. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    We let kids fight our wars
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    no5shooter

    "Hey perga1, read esetters post again. He said pretty plainly WE don't know all the facts here"

    It would seem to me that you should go back and read it again. He also said

    "As a retired principal I want to give you the other side of the story. If you watch the video you will see that the boy has been in trouble many times before so there is obviously some concern with his behavior."

    It would seem to me if we are being asked to take him at his word that has to mean all his word if he is giving us the other side of the story how can he do that with out all the fact. I suggest he is giving us his version of the other side of the story. I for one am not ready to accept his version.

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    wjf100st- No reason for a kid to have a gun in his car? From the ninth grade until graduation form high school, I hunted ducks every morning during the season, left the blind at 7:30 and made it to school just in time to change cloths and make my 8:00 class. Ducks were dropped off on the porch of a lady who liked them and needed the food. School was out at 3:15 and by 4, I was in the blind again.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,522
    Location:
    Blackshear, Georgia
    I didn't know there were states that it was illegal to have a gun in your vehicle! I know there are varous laws about having a loaded gun in a vehicle though. Here in Georgia the driver must take two actions to acqure a loaded gun. It can be locked in glove box or trunk. Unloaded it can lay in the seat next to you or even in your lap. Most folks don't leave their guns in plain site in an unattended vehicle just to prevent breakins. Even in California it's not illegal to leave a gun in your vehicle. I always had to remove mine though as I worked on a military installation. Jackie B.
     
  18. esetter

    esetter Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    Thanks Bob, that is exactly what I was saying. The student might have been charged by the police for all we know, he is a minor and his name wouldn't come out. The Principal wouldn't search the car, the police would if there is a threat or concern for public safety, which is I would guess what happened. What I'm saying is we don't know. Don't be so quick to jump on the school, the principal, or the school board because we don't know all the facts and we never will because he is a minor and as such is protected. The school can't come out and tell you what actually happened because that would violate the students rights. The student and his parents can say whatever they want, the school has to stand there with their mouth closed and take it. If they leak what really happened they get sued. After all the poor boy is a minor. When he shoots one of your kids you will be yelling where were the administrators, why didn't they stop this, all the signs were there. The other students told them there were guns.

    The only way the principal would have known there were guns in the car is if some students came to a teacher or administrator and told them. That means the boy was bragging or threatening someone. Principals don't have x-ray vision.

    I would agree with others here that no high school student should have a gun in his car anywhere without adult supervision. I've owned and shot guns since I was five and my parents would never let me take guns to school. My son has guns and I would never let him put them in his car and go to school.

    Don't be so quick to take things that come out of the media at face value. It always surprises me that some people slam the media when their ox is being gored, but believe them when it fits their agenda.

    Next time before some of you start calling people names, stop and think about what might be going on. Again, educators aren't in the business of teaching because they want to kick kids out of school. But there are some kids that have no business in the traditional school and those students take away the majority of time from the teachers and administrators. It is the student that does what they are suppose to do that ends up suffering because of the ones that don't want to be there.

    Gerry Addison
     
  19. mark54

    mark54 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    139
    To Bushmaster1313, I am from Pa. & it is legal to drive with a firearm anywhere in your vehicle if it is unloaded & you may legally own it. If you have a concealed weapons permit, that changes things.

    Mark54 in Lititz
     
  20. hmrgun

    hmrgun Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    50
    I believe that there is a "1000 foot safe zone" around schools in Calif. Zero tolerance, no guns. I took the following quote from a local news report.

    "The 16 year old had just returned from a duck hunting trip and parked his truck with the unloaded shot gun, ammo and a knife off campus. "I thought if I parked off campus that I'd be all right."

    California law defines a school zone as a distance within 1,000 feet from school grounds. The National Rifle Association got word of his expulsion and is fighting to get him back in school".

    He is back in school, but there may be grounds to for an appeal.

    hmrgun
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.