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shot string??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JimC, Apr 5, 2010.

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  1. JimC

    JimC Member

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    How long is the shot string of a 12 ga at 30 yds? Can a pattern look good on paper but have a gap in the length of the string that a bird can fly through?

    Any slo-mo videos of this??
    Jim
     
  2. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    Easiest way to just get Brister's book, the Art and Science of Shotgunning (IIRC). He goes where few have gone and explains it all.

    HTH

    Charlie
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I'd hafta say no to a target flying through a pattern at 30 yards!! The pattern speed is so much greater than target speeds that any target move will be minuscule at best!! At that distance, possibly an inch or so if that much?

    Hap
     
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Often raised question, mostly for academics.

    The real world answers are:

    1. It doesn't matter.

    2. Its hard to measure.

    3. Nobody wants to take the time to measure it because it doesn't matter, and its hard to measure.

    4. If you knew the answer, what would you do differently?

    5. Nobody has a sure answer for how to lengthen or shorten it.
     
  5. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Hap and Tim are right, and above is a slow motion video from Phil Kiner of shot hitting a target.
     
  6. JimC

    JimC Member

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    Some of the answers just give me more questions.

    do you load for:??????
    1 economy
    2 clean load
    3 pattern
    4 recoil
    5 xxxx

    And one that makes me wonder if it's worth the effort:
    Do you "work up a load" as you would with a rifle?
    "Working up a load" as to putting on paper many different loads and choke combinations. Take the best and then make minor adjustments as to powder, wads, or xxx.
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Loaded questions Jim. Sounds like you're new to this.

    For every person who shoots any clay target shooting game, you'll probably get a different answer.

    A few of my opinions (and note, these are only MY opinions, and others will weigh in with theirs.)

    If you're going to reload, get a good scale, and use it. Bushing charts can be wildly inaccurate.

    Recoil is overrated. Its effects are accumulative. Two things affect recoil. Weight of the shot, and how fast its going. All else is (for all intents and purposes) inconsequential. Pay no attention to the people who say peak pressure or powder burn rate affect recoil. I don't think it does. Others will argue vociferously to the contrary.

    Slow pellets (relatively speaking) break targets just as well as fast pellets. Some very good 27 yard shooters use shells with a muzzle velocity of 1145 fps. Others choose faster.

    One of the big factors attributable to good patterns is good, high quality, hard shot. Remington and Lawrence are good quality.

    Stick to well-known components and hulls. Yes, you can reload with Rio hulls and Rio primers, but you're better off with names like Remington, Winchester, and Federal.

    The exception is that Remington, Winchester, and Federal make fine wads, but companies like Downrange, Duster, Claybuster, and Ballistic Products do too. And often at a better price.

    You do not need to "work up" a shotgun load. There's not much to "fine tuning" like you do with a rifle. If you load some shells, they break targets for you, and they don't destroy your shoulder or your pocketbook, they're probably OK.

    Buy components in bulk.

    What brand of gunpowder you choose is your call. I like Hodgdon products because I am personal friends with some of the Hodgdon family. Hodgdon owns IMR and Winchester powders. Alliant makes good products too.

    Strictly follow the powder manufacturer's recipes. STRICTLY

    If you are using a break-action gun, "clean" powder probably isn't a big necessity. If you're using a semi-auto, a clean burning powder might be advisable.

    Here's what I use for singles and doubles:

    Remington Gun Club hull<br>
    Winchester 209 primer<br>
    Hodgdon CLAYS powder, 17 grains or so (+/- 0.5 grains is not a big deal)<br>
    1 ounce of number 8-1/2 shot (8 works fine too.)<br>
    Downrange XL-1 Wad (Hodgdon says you can use Winchester WAA12SL data for this wad)

    This yields about 1160 fps

    Here's what I use for handicap:

    Remington STS or Nitro 27 hull<br>
    Winchester 209 primer<br>
    Hodgdon TITEGROUP powder, 17.1 grains<br>
    1-1/8 ounce of number 7-1/2 shot (8 works fine too.)<br>
    Downrange DRRT-12 Wad (Hodgdon says you can use Remington Figure 8 data for this wad)

    This yields about 1200 fps

    Good luck
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    JimC, while many do "work up a load" or imagine they do, there is so much variability in patterns, and it's so much work to actually get an answer, most who try it are content to guess since it's hardly possible to guess wrong.

    But shot strings don't count. If you really want to know, do the math at the end of this, Ed Lowry's dismissal of the whole thing. I reposted it from last year's archive.

    Neil.
     
  9. JimC

    JimC Member

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    Thanks for that information. Very intesting reading and some neat testing?!!One less thing to consider or wonder about!
    Now, to get on with loading and some shooting.....

    Jim
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    When working up that new load use equal parts of 7 1/2s, 8s, 8 1/2s and 9s. This will give you the longest possible shot string and increase your chances of breaking the target. HMB
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have worked up with care several loads. After analyzing many patterns of these loads, I can't tell any difference. The published loads for 1 oz using 800X were exceptions. Perhaps the worst load I have ever shot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    From timb99 -

    "Often raised question, mostly for academics.

    The real world answers are:

    1. It doesn't matter.

    2. Its hard to measure.

    3. Nobody wants to take the time to measure it because it doesn't matter, and its hard to measure.

    4. If you knew the answer, what would you do differently?

    5. Nobody has a sure answer for how to lengthen or shorten it."

    That's the best post I've read on shot strings.
     
  13. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    bob brister? 1976? give me a break
    btw, every square inch of the space shuttle is recorded form launch, to docking in space, to landing again. yet, you've never seen anything as simple as a single shot string videoed on earth. what's up with that? the technology is obviously there. and you can bet that remington knows exactly what a shot string looks like from at least 15 different angles! so why don't you? good luck with it
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    quartering- After my limited success measuring shot string with sound last year, I discussed the problem with an engineer at Va Tech. He tole me that his laboratory could come up with a system to measure shot string, he would need about $250,000 start up money for this job. I also believe, counter to your statement, that Remington does not have a clue about shot string.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    All information relating to shot strings is highly classified. This is all secret stuff and the shell manufacturers are not willing to share. HMB
     
  16. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Several years ago, a few guns ago, I shot about 125 rounds with all kinds of loads and choke tubes. I used paper and a chronograph. The value gained was in my learning about the changes, not the specific results since I no longer have the gun. More speed can open a pattern, some wads pattern better than others, etc.

    Targets and generally missed for reasons other than the pattern.
     
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