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Shot String

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by welderman, Oct 10, 2007.

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  1. welderman

    welderman TS Member

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    Last year I posted photos of shot strings near the muzzle. Work has continued and I now have photos of some 13 yard results. The following picture is a shot string where the AA shell was loaded with 9/16 oz of #8 shot and topped off with 9/16 oz of #7 1/2 copper plated shot. I was interested to learn whether the larger shot would arrive ahead of the smaller shot because we all know that larger shot retains its velocity longer. The answer seems to be that when the shot exits the barrel as a group, it tends to fly as a group (Giblin calls it an ensemble). The internet reproduction lacks some resolution, however, I believe these are the first actual photographs of down range shot patterns. I think you will be able to distinguish the copper from the lead. The possibilities for evaluating effect of different variables are limitless. Tom S. (welderman)
    [​IMG]
     
  2. welderman

    welderman TS Member

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    Here we go again. The old picture posting problem - 2nd try
    <img src=http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/welderman_07/HS10-2A.jpg?t=1192054240
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Nice pictures, Tom. Congratulations. One question though: Is the gun shooting toward the right or toward the left?

    Neil
     
  4. welderman

    welderman TS Member

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    Neil,
    The shot is traveling from right to left. It impacts the 1/2 inch thick steel target on the left side of the picture. Tom S. (welderman)
     
  5. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    Sure looks like dead center with a 70% left ?
     
  6. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    I don't see why some electronics wizard can't create a patterning plate with sensors attached to the back side that would record all the individual hits as the pattern hits the other side of the plate. Even to the point of recording where AND when each shot hit.

    This would tell us the exact length of the shot string and it would also be possible to re-create the shot swarm just before impact.

    Of course, this would be a little expensive, but certainly Remington, Federal or Winchester could afford it.....
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks you Tom!! Very interesting photo! I can see the coppers dispersed throughout the string, some even toward the rear? Looking at your pic, I'd guess the duplex theory is now shot down, or looks to be? Thanks for sharing it with us. Hap
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Tom, there's one more thing we need. A photo of a couple of hanging pellets, maybe from a thread, one closer to and one away from the background, so we can see what's shadow, if any. I recall the shadow raised some questions with the first, closer-to-the-muzzle shots. If not, just some idea of the diameter of the light. If it's a point I will worry about shadows; if it's a teacup, I won't. Great shots, that's for sure.

    Neil
     
  9. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Here is a shot of Tom's set up!
     
  10. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    WOW - at 13 yards the shot string is already 2 feet long. Of course you know there is a large group of people who do not believe the shot can stretch out like that.
     
  11. welderman

    welderman TS Member

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    Andy,
    The choke is a Wright Invector+ #8. The paper is 8 1/2 x 11 inches.
    Redhawk44,
    Compton,Giblin,and Radmore did exactly what you suggested. They published it in IEE Proc.-Sci. Meas. Technol.,Vol 145,No.1, January 1998 (England). They reconstructed the shape of the shot stream using a computer. They did a nice job but I felt that the resolution of their computer reconstruction was very pixilated with poor resolution. The live photographs may need some measurements and math performed on them to obtain useful numbers, but at least the numbers will come from accurate data. Tom S.(welderman)
     
  12. Shady Creek

    Shady Creek TS Member

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    Tom,thanks, the pics. were great. GOOD LUCK
     
  13. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Great photo, does it look to anyone else like the shot string has formed an inverted cone with the narrow section closer to the paper and the wider section bringing up the rear?

    Mike
     
  14. scott k

    scott k TS Member

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    great photo, but how do you know that the shot is not bouncing off of the steel plate?i would like to see a photo without the steel plate.just a thought.

    later scott
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I am very impressed with the work Tom has done and surprised at both the length and the shape of the shot string at 13 yards.

    In the shot distribution, I see several "pairs of shot" that seem to be associated with each other. There looks like too many of these pairs to be a random event to me. Is something else happening?

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    That bears on my "shadow" question, Pat. I noticed the same thing.

    Neil
     
  17. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    very cool.
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Pat they are mating, you know, copulating, how else did you think they would reproduce. HMB
     
  19. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tom. Great picture and great work. In this case the picture is many, many more than 1000 words.

    Neil and Pat. The pellets and the shadows are clearly distinguishable. The shadow are fuzzier and less distinct. The shadows are offset down in the center of the string and down and left for the left pellets, down and right for the right pellets. I just checked and that does correspond to the lamp placement.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    zzt- I did not think the "pairs" of shot I saw were shadows. I did see the fuzzy marks that appeared to be shadows. I am quite curious about this distribution.

    hmb- I hope your theory about the boy and girl shot reproducing is correct. I will watch my 25 pound bags of shot and see if they increase to 50 pound bags. If they do, I plan to start a shot farm.

    Pat Ireland
     
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