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Shot string, or shot ball....????

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 8 Straight, Jul 12, 2010.

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  1. 8 Straight

    8 Straight Active Member

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    We had a nice little 50/50 trap-skeet combo shoot Saturday AM. The trap birds were shot first, starting about 0900. The backgroud was a very steep hill, covered with dark hemlock trees. The sun was just coming over the top of the hill, and there was some haze. While sitting behind the line, watching the shooters, you could very plainly seen a ball of shot as it passed, or hit, the birds. All the common talk is of a "shot string" 6 or 7 feet long. I did not observe this at any time, with the actual shot cloud being a ball, for lack of a better term, about the size of a medicine ball. When you think about it, how would shot have time to string out to a length of 7 feet when the distance is only about 30-33 yards. This may happen at extreme ranges, but at target distance, I am inclined to believe the 6-7 foot shot string is a myth when discussing closer range shots. I am making this statement based on actual personal observations. I have NOT done any testing, as most likely will be demanded by the more anal of you. If conditions permit while you are observing some day, pay attention to the shot cloud and make your own decision.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I have seen the same thing. Except the shot ball was more in the shape of a tear drop, with the round ball up front. HMB
     
  3. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    I believe it has been recorded on super high speed cameras that it is in fact a shot string, but the teardrop shape would make sense to me. This is because I would think that the pellets in front would essentially break wind, or at least disturb the air molecules enough so some surface tension is not as great as it was allowing some of the pellets behind to move up front a bit more and create that tear drop affect. Don't know how accurate that is, but it's just a theory.
    -Trappy
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The "ball shaped" image you saw was the greatest mass of the shot cloud. The shot in the string are much fewer and cannot be seen easily. The length of the shot string in in question. I have tried to measure it unsuccessfully by recording the sound as the shot string hit a section of roofing tin. There does seem to be a central mass of shot followed by progressively smaller tail.

    I have seen the gray shot mass many times. It is traveling so fast and has such indistinct edges, I cannot describer the shape with any accuracy.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The slow motion video of shot in flight that I have seen makes the distribution look elliptical kind of like a cartoon cigar. I don't know the actual dimensions but it appears like the shot cloud is about three times in length as it is in diameter. But given that the shot is moving at about 25 times the rate of speed as the target, the pattern hits the target as if it were two dimensional.

    When I see shot flying toward a target it just looks like a grey blurr to me, no real deffinition.
     
  6. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    If you go to this slow motion video of a clay target being broken, stay until the end where it shows a side view. In the side view the shot certainly appear to strung out to me?

    I believe that someone from TS.com did the video, but it was some years ago?? I appreciate his efforts.

    Kip
     
  7. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Rick, that video is incredible! You can actually see the shot breaking the sound barrier! That is easily the coolest video I have ever seen.
    -Trappy
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Excellent photography but I still cannot see the shape of the shot cloud and I cannot calculate the length of the shot mass.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Another view
     
  10. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    That was Tom "Welderman's" video, taken at Westford GC in Mass, note how long it takes all the pellets to hit the "wall" and how far the bird moved in that time period....about 18" MAX!
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Frank C- 18 inches? With a shot string of 10 feet (a very long estimate), target speed has slowed to about 35 MPH = 51.3 ft/sec and the shot has slowed to a little less than 1,000 ft/sec., the target can only travel s few inches before all of the shot has passed the target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    I have wondered about the impact shape of the pattern on a still barrel vs. one being swung at a fast clip. Elongated or not? I've even been tempted to walk down to the pond and give 'er a whirl but haven't gotten around to it.
    dju
     
  13. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    You are new here aren't you David? To make a difference you will have to "whirl" so fast your arms will be torn from your body.
     
  14. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm new. And I have learned something new today.
    Thank you.
    dju
     
  15. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    Bob Brister - The Art and Science of Shotgunning

    decades ago did the shot string thing. Way easy to calc the string length. Brister was a no BS kinda guy.

    Charlie
     
  16. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Pat, look at the video, it appears that from the time the first pellet passes till the last, it MIGHT travel 18", maybe less....the effect of shot "string" is BS
     
  17. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    In the "side view", of Utube #1, in the background, I saw two guys standing above the grassy knoll.

    js in PA
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It's put to bed (for trapshooters) at the above link,

    Try the math, it's easy, Maximum bird angle about 28 degrees. Shot speed 650 ft/sec. Target speed 50 ft/sec.

    Neil
     
  19. Too Tall

    Too Tall TS Member

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    Two views on shotstrings from Phil Kiner and Dennis DeVault.

    http://www.trapandfield.com/philkinerblog.htm
    Scroll down to Read “Debunking the myth of the shotstring” in the June issue of Trap & Field, in the mail now!
    (please give the photos below time to load)

    http://devaultind.com/newsletter%20january.pdf A copy right claim removed Dennis' youtube link.

    Robert Houston
     
  20. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Yup, shot string effect on trap or skeet targets is less than than the effect of a fly being crushed under your shoe as you set up to shoot. About the same effect of shooting a 1200 fps load in contrast to a 1225 load. Read Bob Brister and learn about shot string.
     
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