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Shot string measurement equipment

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Claymuncher, Dec 6, 2011.

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  1. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    [​IMG]


    Everyone should have one. Neil this is what you were wondering about, if I actually "seen" This equipment. Larry Nailon / Performance Gun Works / Clearview Products. Used to make the best choke tubes bar none and had the best testing equipment for barrel work. I wish the company was still producing.

    I would really like to test a turkey choke tube on this!

    CM
     
  2. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Click on the link. Some people on here might not have seen this, it was posted a while ago.

    Wayne
     
  3. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    Cool video!
     
  4. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Bob Brister did that years ago.
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Wayne, there's a few here that won't agree with Field&Stream's test results. Did you notice the first to last pellet strike and how far a target at 35mph might possibly move? Thanks for posting this again.

    Hap
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    CM, I have that picture too, and that's why I specifically asked if you had seen it "in action."

    I think it must have been that the 16-feet of paper were wrapped around the cylinder, the cylinder brought up to speed, and the shot fired.

    It seems to me that it would work, but was never able to find any reference at all to the outcomes of any of Larry's experiments other than the recoil-force ones.

    Unless I misremember, he always thought that the target passed through the shotstring rather than the shotstring blazing by the target. Do I have that right?

    Neil
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    A registered target is a minimum of 44 mph for 16s and hdcp, I always used a shot string of 3-4 feet for my purposes of a 3 dram 1200 fps shell.

    Th onl way tis can be proven is with a high speed camera facing a white background with shotgun being fired paralell to the white paper with feet in inches approx 35 to 40 yards from the paper, it will need to be done several times at different distances.

    The milliseconds shown in video does not show shot string in action.

    I have always said there is a shot string.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Gary, the length of shot strings can be proven in many ways, the posted video being one of them. The millisecond shown in the video do show the shot string in action. But this is not small lead shot, so our situation may (or may not) be different.

    I have always said there is a shot string too. But I also agree with Ed Lowry that it can be ignored in every trapshooting case.

    Neil
     
  9. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    ...and should be :)
     
  10. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    who cares about "shot string"?
     
  11. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    Neil : The one thing you get out of his information booklet is that 20 percent of a shot string never reaches the target and "increases" with the length of it. From his diagrams it seems that is his thought, but above all he always wanted that shortest shot string.

    rick979 : How could a you not care about the length of the shot string if its length is causing your pattern to decrease its effects. The shorter the better. If you are in the middle of your birds making smoke it will not matter. But if you are having to work hard on your birds and braking off the edges it will matter.

    Obviously you want to get the most out of your chokes and forget about it, letting the confidence you have in them roll over into your shooting. It is a fun discussion and that is all it is. I am glad their are shooters that like turkey chokes and long shot strings. Gives me an edge.

    CM
     
  12. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    I can remember when the guys around the trap club would talk about 18ft long shot strings and whipping the barrel fast enough to spread the shot around. Doesn't make anymore sense now that it did then when I first started trying to hit a clay bird. I think if the shot string is 18ft long it would probably be 18ft wide too?
     
  13. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    Larry Nailon's thoughts.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    Great thoughts, very enlightening...

    Thanks,
    Chip
     
  15. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    The article above is deliberately confusing the issue by using numbers that are not realistic and calculating the scenario backwards. They are trying to draw the reader into a conclusion by only calculating half of the answer. It may take 4.8 hundredths of a second for the clay to move 30 inches, but the shot passes the clay in less than .02 second. See below:

    There is some simple math involved. The target traveling 44 mph is going 64.5 ft/sec. The shot from your gun is travelling approximately 1000 ft/sec.

    So if the shot string really was 20 ft long, travelling 1000 ft/sec, it would take .02 seconds for the entire train of shot to pass the target.

    Now at the same time, the target is going 64.5 ft/sec, so the clay moved 1.29 ft, or 15 inches.

    I think that pretty well bounds the problem. I don't think anyone believes the train of shot is longer than about 20 feet. And anything shorter will have the clay target moving even less. That doesn't really sound like the clay flying into the shot to me, but there is always the golden BB.
     
  16. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    To follow up, if the shot slowed down to 500 ft/sec, and the shot string was still 20 ft long, the clay would move 30 inches in the time it took for the shot to pass the clay. I don't think you can reasonably get to any number higher than that.
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Avaldes, that's always been my problem with Mr. Nailon's work. How could anyone go to all the trouble to build that machine and yet claim, over and over again, with drawings and everything, that the target flew through the shot string?

    The specific error in his logic is this sentence

    "In fact the average #8 pellet... would require . . . before the target crosses the pattern of 30 inches at 35 miles per hour."

    This describes a situation which is impossible, that is, the target cannot cross the 30-inch pattern because before the target has gotten more than a few inches, the shot string is gone.

    Even using Mr. Nailon's numbers, a #8 pellet going 660 ft/sec on a six-foot string, (let's call it a 6.6-foot shot string, shall we? ) the entire shot string will pass the target in 0.01 seconds. The target speed specified is 616 inches per second, so in 0.01 seconds, the target will travel 6 inches. Thus it cannot cross the pattern.

    I always wondered why Mr. Nailon couldn't see that.

    Neil
     
  18. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Hap, you are right. EDIT. Neil I believe your distance is correct.

    Wayne
     
  19. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    This is great winter time discussion, but I have to ask, Do Trapshooters overanalyze things? Jon
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Wayne, clearly, there are at least three calculations recently, two of which I think are in error by factors of 10 and 12 respectively. I think mine is right, but then . . .

    I checked Mr. Nailon's math and it seems right to me, but there's always a danger that, having the "answer" in front of me, it's what I am going to get too succumbing to what seems to be "the magnetic attraction of mathematical errors."

    Still, I'll stick with mine, for the present, at least.

    Either way it makes it clear that Mr. Nailon's analysis is backwards, a total misunderstanding of what's going on. I've misplaced the most clear rendition, but have many examples if anyone wants me to post them.

    Neil
     
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