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shot size and yardage??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mike T, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Are you perfectly happy with shooting 8's from the 27? I am talking about 1 1/8 oz size. I do know 1145 to 1235 really does not make much difference.
    So what do you think?

    Last year I played around with 1oz from the 16 didn't see any difference in my scores, But did like the reduced recoil.

    So I have a few bags of 7 1/2 Any opinions on 1oz with these for 16's?

    Spring is coming it was 61 today in Iowa

    thanks
    mike t
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Man, what an optimist! It was 64 degrees at The club today.

    I think if you were to measure the newer shot being sold, there are fewer true #8 shot in a bag of eights than the other sizes.

    A bag of Lawrence 7 1/2's I did some random checking on yielded shot from #6 to #8 1/2's. I wondered If I got floor sweepings!

    I like 7 1/2's for everything but Skeet.
     
  3. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Mike....There should be no problem!
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Fred- Shot is separated into sizes by rolling it over screens with different size openings. This system works fairly well if the shot is spherical and the screens are in good condition. Some bags of shot are fairly uniform, but some are not. I have measured the shot diameters in a bag of shot made by a factory South of Central America and found that the number stamped on the bag has little relationship to the shot size in the bag.

    I have also measured the shot size in discount shells produced in Spain. Sometimes the shot size stamped on the box reflects the shot size in the shells in the box, and sometimes it does not. Boxes stamped as #8 shot should more accurately be stamped as "Between 7.5 and 9 Shot".

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I have been comfortable with 7.5s for everything. Even 1oz loads. But I shoot what I can get.
     
  6. Earl4140

    Earl4140 TS Member

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    mike t" Your "Are you perfectly happy with shooting 8's from the 27? I am talking about 1 1/8 oz size. I do know 1145 to 1235 really does not make much difference. So what do you think?" Mike the 1235 f/s is very near the ATA maximum and the recoil is significant. I shoot 1 1/8 @ 1145f/s and 1 @ 1290 f/s. I'm probably kidding mysef, but I think the 1145 f/s are 'slow'.

    "Last year I played around with 1oz from the 16 didn't see any difference in my scores, But did like the reduced recoil". Mike, you didn't state the velocity for the 1 oz load. Until we know the velocity your reduced recoil may be placebo.

    "So I have a few bags of 7 1/2 Any opinions on 1oz with these for 16's"?
    The one ounce of 7 1/2 is a good load for all aspects of ATA Trap. Again you neglected to state your 1 oz load velocity. My velocity is 1290 f/s and the recoil is roughly 10% more than the 'Standard' trap load of 1 1/8 @ 1145 f/s. Earl Hamman
     
  7. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    From the 27 1145-1235 makes a hell of a differance. After 25+ years on the 27 I've found more speed is the key. I would not shoot any thing less than 1250 fps on the 27, with 7.5's only. I shoot only AA's @ about 1260 fps when I use new shells. I would shoot Fed papers but the are hard to get, costly, and I reload the AA's.
     
  8. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    MikeT.........you must be in southern Iowa cause it only got to 48 in north central Iowa.

    shot410ga......I'm on the 23 and shoot 1200 fps for everything includeing 1 oz 8's for 16's. My question is what yardage should a person start to shoot a faster shell for handicap?

    Bill
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Speed is the key. The faster you shoot and the faster the shell, the more sucessful you'll be as you move back. At least from my experiance
     
  10. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    shot410ga,

    How much less lead do you need on a hard angle from the 27 @ 1250 than say at 1200?

    Thanks,
     
  11. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I don't lead anything. I just follow through. If I'm going fast enough (with a fast load) and follow through the way I should, the gun goes off when I pass through the target. End of target. And I do see the bird/bead relationship, most of the time. But, it's a fleeting image, and not sll the time. That's the way I shoot. It may not be right for everyone but, it works for me.
     
  12. Earl4140

    Earl4140 TS Member

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    Shoot410: I absolutely agree with you on leads. My leads are stored in my subconsious and If I can lock onto the taget I'm going to break it. I see no bead, no barrel (hopefully) and just eye ball the target.

    "shot410ga, How much less lead do you need on a hard angle from the 27 @ 1250 than say at 1200?" JBrooks

    The difference in lead may be difficult to answer. In my old Trap Books leads as a function of shooter station, yardage and target position (straight away from what post) were given. No angles deeper than straightaways from one and five were treated. This data was borrowed from the NRA so I suggest it is 1200 f/s. The lead for Post 1 target Post 5 as a function of distance is 35", 44" & 60" for 16', 20' & 26 yards respectively. The new NRA book is $40. I searched the WEB and got no hits. My searches suck.

    Kaye Ohye did some calculations and indicated the difference between 2 3/4 de and 3 de was not much. Some sage pointed out that Kay shot 3 de. Mr. Ruddy Etchen demonstrated that 2 3/4 de was enough.

    Personally I have fallen into the shell trap. After shooting 1290 f/s one ounce I can't hit much from the 24 yard line with 1145 f/s shells. Earl
     
  13. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Burlington its 10:00 p.m. and still 53 degrees Guns been in its case for 2 month. Sure getting itchy to get it out. Think Cedar Rapids will be having a Feb. Registered shoot. Closest shoots are about 1 to 1 1/2 hours away. MIght run over to Ottumwa or Cedar Rapids for the derby some time this winter if thing work out.

    To all:

    I like to shoot Nitro 71/2 from the 25 and on back. I am now at the 23 1/2 and will work to move back this next year. Last year I was at the 25 1/2 but shot poorly and got reduced. Just could not shoot well. I think I was shooting behind the target most of the time.

    I think I shoot like shot410ga. I really don't see a lead of the bird I just pull through and pull the trigger. I do kind of see a bird bead relationship in my "minds eye" and the old computer says pull the trigger.

    Just looking for advice to get to the 27

    thanks to all
    mike t
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    mike- I can tell you how to get to the 27. Don't get wrapped up in minor details like shot size and loads. Just get some good shells and forget what is in them. Then, believe that breaking the next target is very important. Decide the day before each shoot if it is important to break a good score. If it is, then commit yourself to working hard enough to break a good score. When you drop a target, you have an excellent learning opportunity. Figure out what went wrong and don't make the mistake again. Learn from your misses. Pick out one aspect of your shooting that needs to improve. Work on only this one thing until you get it right.

    After you get to the 27, enjoy your accomplishment for a shoot or two because you will soon figure out it is not a big deal. Long yardage shooters are just shooters much like you are now.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    mike t, though I use 7 1/2's, every time I pattern from 40 yards I think that I should be shooting 8's.

    Neil
     
  16. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I use 8s because Neil's patterns proved to me I should, and Mike, thanks for using those Nitros, it's what keeps my shells cheap.
     
  17. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Neil,
    I too like 7 1/2s but have been think of 8s. I heared from my brother in law from the class he took from Leo. Leo said the only reason he uses 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2s is because he can't use 1 1/4 oz. I took a class from Harlan and he uses 7 1/2s. I have heard all the stuff about energy of 71/2s over 8s But I don't think anyone can say with any scientific facts that one is more apted to break a target over another size.

    So I think I will try some Nitro 8's this year and see where it takes me.
    mike t

    By the way it is 35 and sleeting now so much for spring hahahah
     
  18. Earl4140

    Earl4140 TS Member

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    Neil Winston: "mike t, though I use 7 1/2's, every time I pattern from 40 yards I think that I should be shooting 8's. Neil"

    This is a perfect example of why you should never pattern your gun! Shooter is evaluating a very complicated three dimensional problem by reducing it to two dimensions. This yields the 'Shell Trap'. Every time you miss a bird with 7 1/2s you think "Should of had 8s".

    Let us visit the 7 1/2s versus 8s. FWIW IMHO the 7 1/2s are the way to go at long yardage. I recommend using the same shell at Singles to simplify your inventory. The following effects are minor. Sort of like getting the fly specks out of the pepper or the straw that broke the Camel's back. In the Trapshooting vernacular 'The Golden BB'.

    Fact: The 7 1/2 pellet has more energy at the bird. The 7 1/2 will reach the target sooner. The speed of rotation of the Target, like the Earth, slows with time. IMHO The sooner you get to the target, the easier it is to break do to centrifugal force. There will more 'Dead' and less 'Dust'. When you pickup a target which is unbroken and has 3 or 4 holes, I suggest those holes were more likely made by 8s than 7 1/2s.

    New Rules, to call me a 'Dumb Butt' you must be a Real 27 yard Trap shooter or have a Vandalia/Sparta 100 Straight pin or have beaten an ATA President in a shoot off. Earl Hamman Caveat: I have never been higher than A/24.5/C.
     
  19. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Look friend, If you want to shot 8's from the 27 then do so. Dan Orlick shot the first perfect 400x400 in a registered trap shot in 1968 ( PITA not ATA)he did this shooting 8's as that was what he liked best. Daro Handy once shot a 98 from the 27 yard line with 1OZ of 8 1/2's which is his singles and doubles load. Daro also said that given the choice between more speed and more shot he would take more speed. The beayty is that you do not have to choose. Shot 7 1/2's in cold weather and 8's in warm weather. Or just shot 8's. My trap shoting buddy is like you and shots 8's for everything and he shots from the 26. Jeff
     
  20. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Short answer. The more pellets in the pattern, the higher the chances of one of the 8s pellets hitting an oncoming rotating surface of the target which will deliver far more breaking energy than a 71/2 hitting a receding surface of the target.
     
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