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SHOT Show 2011

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by W.R.Buchanan, Jan 21, 2011.

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  1. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Location:
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    Well I just got back from the SHOT Show yesterday after spending 2.5 days and probably 40-50 miles of walking. I must say I like the new venue at the Sands Expo much bettr than the old Convention Center. The old Convention Center always included that 1 mile + walk back to your car that you had to pay $20 to park. Parking is free at the Venetian Parking structure.

    I was pretty lucky to be able to talk at length(30 min +) with several of "them that knows" including Walt Berger, Mike Venturino, and Dave Scoville, all of Handloader and Rifle Magazines. I learned much from these chats as I don't ask simple questions and only "them that actually knows" can answer my questions. The only one I went to see that I didn't hook up with was Brian Pearce. Who is their resident expert on big bore everything.

    I think there will be either an article or a comple issue of Handloader Mag, devoted to the understanding of why and how certain powders work in specific applications, but not in others. This is a long winded subject to be sure, and I am looking forward to an understandable desertation on these subjects. This is one of the basic 'keys" of "understanding" loading of cartridges.

    It is one thing to "know" what you are doing, it is an entirely different thing to "understand" what you are doing, and I can tell you with certainty the latter is senior to the former.

    I also got first hand schooling on how much spin a given bullet needs to perform correctly, and the considerations that define twist rates versus bullet length. I got this info directly from Walt Berger himself and then some fine points illustrated by his much younger head ballistician. These people constitute "them that knows" in the bullet world.

    One other person I would definately put into the first category is the head guy from Alliant Powder. I didn't get his name as he didn't have a name tag on but after talking to him about why certain powders work well in one cartridge but not in another for 45 minutes, I came away with a sense of accomplishment. "Pressure Burn Rate" being the main concept to be gleaned from that discussion.

    I must say that after talking to many other people about similar subjects it becomes much easier to detect "them that's full o'shit".

    My goal of talking to these specific people was to further my understanding of cartridge loading, and I feel it was definately worth the trip.

    One of the people I did not get any good answers from was the Browning Shotgun Rep that gave me every reason in the book why I couldn't buy an unsingle barrel direct from Browning for my XT. He claimed that the parts on XT's are so closely fit that every single gun was virtually hand made and that it would be impossible to offer single barrels because of that reason. I'd believe that if I had an old Superposed or had never heard of a Kreighoff. I tried every way I could think of the let him know that the machined parts that fit together were being made to within .0002 thruout entire runs of parts and the hand fitting of those parts would be minimal at best. He was convinced that the best Miroku could deliver was +/- .005, If that's all the better they could do I doubt they would even be making gun cases for Browning. I loved the part where he was showing me all of the file marks on the sides of the barrel block that were conclusive evidence of hand fitting, only problem is they were actually grinding marks done by the grinder that finished the barrel block to width. The final thing that convinced me of his lack of knowledge on this subject was him telling me that if the parts were even .001 too loose that the barrels would wobble back and forth sideways! That's when I gave up. Whereas he might have been a good shot, and he thought he knew what he was talking about, there is no substitute for "actually" knowing what you are talking about.

    You can always tell someone who knows what he is talking about. You ask him a non typical question and there is little or no hesitation before the easily understood answer comes forth. I got this on subjects from them that knows on subjects as obscure as "Pressure Burn Rate.", Bullet stability as related to bullet revolutions, and "expansion ratio's contribution to suitability of powders for specific cartridges"!

    Just telling me that "Browning didn't want to sell unsingle barrels because there was no money in it", would have satisfied my request for information.

    Moving on,,,,,

    There were probably 100 different outfits selling flashlights of all description. I was given this one which is the same size as a .44 magnum cartridge case? 70 lumens!
    [​IMG]


    There was several that clipped to the barrel of your M2 BMG, and one could be focused down to an almost laser beam, and when sighted in to the gun could be used like a trace aiming laser. It was 12 MILLION CP! and would shoot a intense beam of light 2 miles! It literally was burning the wall paper on the room when turned on.

    The other thing I saw alot of was knife manufacturers, must have been 100.

    We spent the first day in the Downstairs area which is where most of the cool stuff is located. The second day we concentrated on the upper main floor where all of the big outfits are located. The I went back to the bottom floor by myself on the third.

    This is really a don't miss kind of show. I try to go every year, and it is well worth the trip. You need to alot at least 2 days just to see most of it. Once you've gone a few times you can bypass alot of the crap you're not interested in and move faster, but still you're lloking at 2 full days of walking literally miles within these buildings. It is a big show, and there is alot to take in.

    I had a great time! Hope you did too.

    Randy
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Really hope to make it one of these years. Wish it rotated locations so it'd be a little closer, but vegas shouldn't be too bad as long as you plan far enough in advance.
     
  3. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Randy: Was there anything new in the shotgun world, besides a bitch session with the Browning Salesman?
     
  4. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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  5. ntgr8

    ntgr8 Member

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    Is the shot show open to the public? Is there an admission charge? If not open to the general public how can a person get in?
     
  6. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Let me ask a difficult question for an expert since I am old, and then very well-versed in life's frustrations: "How can I obtain admission to the SHOT Show?" I'd love to go one day.

    Otherwise, the first posting on this thread is only somewhat helpful, although an enjoyable read, thanks, but appears to be more of a brag. BTW, I got to go to the NAMM show in Anaheim last week. For those of you in the music business, that's really a BIG deal. I could tell you how I got in, but I'd "have to kill you afterwards"...so there, nah-nah-nah.

    David Buchman
    Los Angeles
     
  7. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    The SHOT show is relatively easy to get into. Though technically restricted to people in the industry, they let almost anyone in that doesn't look like a bum off the street. In the past you only needed a copy of an FFL from any gun dealer, and then you register as a salesman, purchasing agent, etc. from that
    dealer. There is an admission fee now, I think it's $50. You can sign up at the door or in advance by going to their website.
     
  8. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    Shot Show is not open to the public, you either have to be some sort of dealer, whether it be FFL or accessories, or be a rep. from a gov't entity (e.g. procurement agent with DoD, etc.). They will not let any Joe Blow off the street in....from what I read on numerous threads, most of the reps. exihibiting at Show Show don't want to be jaw jacking with Joe Blow average who is just browsing for fun, they want to spend their time jaw jacking with dealers or procurement agents who are interested in buying.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Member

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    Randy, Did you see Jim West? Are you going ahead with the Co-Pilot look a like project ? Mik
     
  10. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Location:
    Ojai CA
    Shot410ga: I saw quite a few new shotguns, but mostly they were field type guns, and tactical guns, and many new low end guns.

    I saw nothing new from the high end outfits. Perrazzi had the same displays they have shown for the last several years. CG had a smaller booth than last year and it was on the bottom floor. I didn't see Kreighoff at all, maybe I just missed them.

    One thing I noticed is that many of the generic manufacturers were using laser checkering now. The main one I saw with this was Ithaca. It looked really good for a field gun but not quite up to target gun standards. I suggested to them to rough the checkering in with the laser and then finish by hand. Ithaca is also building M37's with higher grade woods and finishes, and I saw guns all the way down to 28ga. Maybe a 410 is coming. The 28ga with the nice wood is a sweet gun, and they are made right here in the US.

    The othr thing I noticed was that generic gun quality was way up. Since Marlin was taken over by Remington their quality has gone way up. I saw little to complain about with the guns I handled. Pushed for 1/20 twist barrels for the .44 magnum guns but that's all.

    The new Browning gun was a semi auto field gun with camo from one end to the other. It was a nice looking gun, certainly not a Futuristic as some of the Berettas and Benellis, but of "advanced styling" none the less.

    We saw several new brands of inexpensive $400-700 OU shotguns, made in Russia and the Balkans. They were not half bad either, and for the money they were definately worth a look. Stoeger has an O U "coach gun" with 20" barrels that is pretty cool.

    Champ 2: The only person I talked to about shot was a guy who's outfit mines shot from your range. Range clean up, and his business is BOOMING. His machinery is just like big time Gold mining outfits except it uses blown air to sift the material instead of water which would contaminate the ground where ever he was.

    Ntgr8: the SHOT Show is NOT open to the public, however it is easy to get in. You sign up as a "Company Rep". I have my own company so this is not a stretch for me, my Bro in law who works for Vons Market, went as my shop foreman. It cost $25 per person. You jsut have to be creative when you sign up. Believe me there was a gillion people there, and most of them were not affiliated with any company.

    The great thing about this type of show is you can rub elbows with all of the high mucky mucks of the industry. Believe me when I say they are all quite willing to talk to you. I talked to Jim Shockey, his wife, and daughter, Jim Burnworth, Evil Roy, Jim Scoutten, R Lee Ermey, Rob Latham, Jerry Michelek, and many others. I'm naturally blabby. I found out what a "jackwagon" is direct from the horses mouth. I talked to outfits I want to do business with, and found out who to talk to to get into business with companies. Virtually everyone I spoke to was happy to be there and lookin' to do business.

    I had exactly one bad experience where I was totally ignored for 5 different visits to a booth. Rather not say who it was in the wide open. Beleive me I am not an easy person to ignore, and they had to work at it. The Browning guy I talked abut above was not disrespectful at all to me in any way, he just wasn't telling me what I wanted to hear.

    You can find out more about what is going on in the industry at this one place than any other place I know of.

    They used to switch the venue back and forth between LV and Florida, but they have settled it into LV now because most everybody has to fly there anyway and it is cheaper to fly to LV from just about anywhere than, to fly to any other place. Also the weather there is far superior to any place back easy right now. It was 70 degree sunshiney days for the whole week. Although it was raining like hell last year this time.The new place is alos much easier to get in and out of.

    You park in the Venetian Parking Structure which holds about 11 miilion cars, you walk to the elevator, you go down to the 3rd floor walk thru the casino and you're there. About a 10 minute walk to, and from your car.

    If your spouse is up to it I would suggest making a weeks vacation out of the trip, that way you can "Leisurely" visit the show instead of trying to power thru it in 2 days. You can not walk this whole venue in 2 days, you are talking literally "many miles" (10+ easy) . You can rent scooters if you can't walk that much. Many of the aisles are 300 yards long! So it is back and forth all the while looking for things that interest you. When you stop to talk to someone you want to see, you are cutting into your walking time. I had several 30-45 minute conversations with people who had information I needed, so in the end I probably didn't see "everything". After you've been a few times you weed out the things you don't want to see.

    There is alot to see, and once you've gone, you'll be going back.

    Randy
     
  11. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    The shotguns that most of us would drool over are also in Las Vegas, but not at the SHOT show. They're at the International Sporting Arms show at the Riviera Hotel, held right before the SHOT show. This is where you'll find the Fabbri's, high end Perazzi's, Krieghoff, Beretta's, etc. You don't want to miss this one, though if you're planning to take in both shows, you better be in shape.
     
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