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Shot buffeting crossing sonic barrier?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Oct 5, 2009.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Fact one: The speed of sound at sea level is 1128 fps.<br>
    <br>
    Fact two: Bullets are subject to buffeting when transitioning from supersonic to subsonic speeds. This can cause groups to open up. Rimfire shooters know this phenomena all too well, as this transition happens at around 75 yards or so, depending on the ammunition used. In theory, groups at 100 yards should be double that of group at 50 yards, but in reality they often are larger than that.<br>
    <br>
    So I got to thinking... what effect, if any, would this have on shot crossing the sonic threshold? While pattern size increasing somewhat would not really be an issue, would the buffeting cause irregularities in the quality of the patterns?<br>
    <br>
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    When shot travels at supersonic speed, breaking the sound barrier, there is so much stress on the pellets that they become flat on the leading edge. This in turn gives the shooter an advantage. The flat face of the shot hits the target harder, causing more force on the target, therby causing it to break, that is unless ya missed it.

    Even with a missed target, as the shot comes back from the supersonic speed, causing the pattern to spread drastically as the flat pellets begin to fly wildly, many targets are broken as the targets slows to match the speed of the shot. Thereby, the clay and target run together and pieces of the target are heading into the stratosphere to places unknown, caused by the slow moving shot that is no longer traveling at supersonic speed.

    Please don't ask me to explain any of this, it's just the way it is. No need for graphs or anything. Although some might appear to prove my theory wrong. (Which wouldn't be too difficult, more than likely)
     
  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Brian,

    The shot column is constantly changing lead pellets. The turbulance that's in play because of this probably causes more pattern distortion that the pellets transcending in and out of the sonic barrier.

    'hippie,

    Flat sides on recovered shot is from impact not air pressure. If it flat-spoted in flight, the shot would fly every which way because of tumbling.

    ss
     
  4. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    "If it flatspoted in flight, the shot would fly every which way because of tumbling."

    ss

    Doesn't the flat fronted shot cause the pattern to spread more, thereby causing the holes in the pattern to be filled?
     
  5. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    My loads don't slow to sub-sonic until their second orbit.
     
  6. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I want to vanish into a parallel universe where America is still solvent.
     
  7. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I've seen my shot enter a wormhole just before hitting the target. All of my misses are due to this phenomenon. Dave T.
     
  8. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    If you go out at night, you can see hippis shot coming back down. It's called a meteor shower. The larger ones are the chunks of targets.
     
  9. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Why not stay subsonic? Any studies Neil?
     
  10. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    You guys miss the point. It is commonly known that "dimples" on a golf ball cause a "draft" behind the ball lessening the effect of drag. The same holds tru for pellets with flat spots.They are just plain faster. I use my sand blaster to put dimples in my shot and my bullets book down range at the speed of light.

    Fun thread Bri. Good shot.
     
  11. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Can we pull the net in yet??? or leave it out for a large harvest?? LOL
     
  12. racer

    racer TS Member

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    I think MIA is right, after lots of hail damage my car got 30% better mileage.
     
  13. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Shotgun pellets slow down so fast that any practical target load that you care to pattern at any useful distance would already have it's pellets traveling at subsonic speeds.

    Any buffeting effect that may happen in the transonic zone has been and gone in any practical pattern tests that you wish to perform.

    I don't have any figures at hand but I'd guess that most any target load out there would be subsonic before it had even reached 10 yards, probably a lot less.
     
  14. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    doggai: No worry, just speed that dripper up to supersonic. Problem solved.
    Time to call Mythbusters. Dave T.
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    PerazziBigBore, quote: <i>"Can we pull the net in yet??? or leave it out for a large harvest?? LOL"</i><br>
    <br>
    Except that I'm not trolling. I'm serious. I'd like to know if this might have an effect on pattern quality.
     
  16. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I wonder if the good doctor knows. Doc?
     
  17. racer

    racer TS Member

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    I want to know why folks think that the shot in the back passes the shot in the front? Dan
     
  18. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Well I have to let you guys in on a little secret, this won't work in all places in the country but will at least in the best places.

    On your way to the range just pull into the Sonic Drive In, ask the nice young lady to super size you and you're ready for a day of bird crushing like you've never seen. And don't let anyone tell you it's against the rules, they were 8's when you loaded them and you can't help what happened to them after that.
     
  19. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    This article has a lot of info. Some of Randy Wakeman's writings I agree with, some I don't. Wayne
     
  20. bill4807

    bill4807 Member

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    Are we talking about 7 1/2s or 8s?
     
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