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Shooting Wrong Yardage-Does It Make anyDiffer

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Neil Winston, Nov 7, 2007.

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  1. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Drew, say a guy is on the 21 but routinely shoots from the 24 because that's where his friends are. He doesn't shoot well from there, and so gets a reduction to the 20.

    If he had been shooting from the 21, as the ATA thought, he might have a higher average and not gotten that reduction.

    The reduction system is based on the assumption that he's shooting from where he is supposed to. If he doesn't, the system doesn't work.

    Neil
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Drew- Do you think the targets shot from the longer yardage should count toward a reduction?

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    How bout if the shooter ears a punch from the longer yardage? Where does he shoot from then?
     
  4. dsid01

    dsid01 TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    In my opinion that is a good way to get away with sandbagging, which is BS
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    I haven't seen the phrase "Official Yardage" in the ATA Rulebook but if there is such a thing it must be the yardage the ATA office thinks you are shooting from. There is a time period when you shoot from a yardage that is longer than your Official Yardage. Immediately after you earn a punch and also when your Reduction is still in the mail system and you don't have your new card in your hand, these are obvious temporary situations where yardage is different from Official. I still don't know how you can "Take" a Reduction but keep on shooting at your previous yardage when there is no way to tell the ATA office that circumstances prevent you from shooting at your "Official Yardage". At one time a few years ago there was a fine print line in the Rulebook that said the Central Handicap Committee can revoke a yardage Reduction if a shooter keeps on shooting at his/her previous yardage without refusing the Reduction in a reasonable time period ??
     
  6. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Reverse sandbagging. He should be banned from the ATA!
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    ...and even if you are shooting at the wrong yardage and are disqualified!

    Neil
     
  8. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Anonymous wants to know who we are? Now that's funny.

    If you want to shoot a longer yardage, go ahead. It's not like the kid in the chair with the Ipod plugged into her brain is going to notice.
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Pat Ireland posed the following question: "Drew- Do you think the targets shot from the longer yardage should count toward a reduction?"

    I will re-word that question: If someone has an ATA assigned yardage of 26 yards should their ATA Handicap scores shot from their PITA yardage of 27 yards count toward an ATA 1000 target review ?? If yes, could that person get a Reduction to the 25 ?? Is the ATA Computer program that generates 1000 target reviews designed to ignore scores shot at a yardage that is longer than a person's assigned ATA yardage ??
     
  10. Harold

    Harold TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Neil wrote "If he had been shooting from the 21, as the ATA thought, he might have a higher average and not gotten that reduction."

    Bull feathers. What if he is shooting 7/8 ounce and the ATA thought he was shooting 1 1/8? What if he was shooting a Mossberg and the ATA thought he had a Perazzi?
     
  11. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Drew, this is not really an uproar. In the cases sighted, a shooter shooting from Penalty Yardage or his/her PITA yardage because it is longer are strictly in accordance with the ATA Rulebook and even though it is sort of on the Honor System, someone could be Disqualified from shooting at a longer yardage if they could not demonstrate that they followed the ATA rules. If you feel like shooting from a longer yardage, you have to go through the proper channels.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Drew- You raised an excellent question and keeping the shooters shooting on the correct yardage and keeping the correct yardage in the ATA computer is an ongoing challenge.

    Many shooters refuse a reduction but they do not tell the ATA that they want to refuse the reduction. This lack of communication frequently results in a difference between the yardage in the ATA computer and the yardage the shooter shoot. After shooting a few hundred from the wrong yardage as shown in the ATA computer, the office figures out that the shooter has refused the reduction and changes the computer. These targets count. Whenever I help classify at a larger shoot, I discover several of these instances and inform the CHC that the shooter has refused a reduction. It would be much simpler if the shooters would directly inform the ATA office.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    " After shooting a few hundred from the wrong yardage as shown in the ATA computer, the office figures out that the shooter has refused the reduction and changes the computer."

    Pat, do you know if the ATA office notifies the shooter that his/her reduction was revoked because they continued to shoot at their old yardage. I can see a Disqualification headache if the communication lines are not open and the shooter has two ATA cards with different yardages and he has not yet made up his mind to refuse or take the reduction.
     
  14. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    When you get a 1000 target review, you don't get a letter and a new ATA card if your Purified Handicap Average is above your zone's trigger point. You only get the letter and new card when the ATA's real computer thinks your purified average is below the trigger point. With the notification and new card you are given 3 choices. 1) Return the new card and check the Box on the Notification that Yardage was earned and the Reduction does not apply. 2) Return the new card and check the Box on the Notification that you "Refuse" the Reduction. 3) "Take the Reduction" Do Not return the new card or Notification - Do Nothing.

    There is no time limit on Option 3. You can receive a Reduction Notice in November and not shoot a Handicap Event until the following May because there are no Registered Shoots in your area.

    I think that Option 3 instead of - Do Nothing - should be changed to another Box on the notification that says "Reduction Accepted". This is a positive response and there is No Doubt.

    In my own case I am at the 27 in both PITA and ATA. If I were offered a Reduction to the 26 in ATA, I would accept it but I would keep on shooting from the 27 until I could negotiate a PITA Reduction with the PITA CHC and I don't know how long that would take. It is better to just keep getting punches instead.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Mike- I forget the actual number but if a shooter receives a reduction and continues to shoot something like 400 handicap targets at the old yardage, the ATA assumes the reduction has not been accepted and the shooter has not bothered to send in the refusal. This does create confusion in the ATA office.

    When I classify and I find a different handicap yardage in the computer than on the card, I ask the shooter about a possible refused reduction. This is common. I simply print out a second classification paper and write RR on the top. These are given to Terry B. (Central Handicap Committee) and he takes care of the rest. Shooters can cause both confusion and extra work in the ATA office.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    If reductions were mandatory, it would solve many problems.
     
  17. Southern Gent

    Southern Gent TS Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    I've always wondered why ATA doesn't follow the sporting clays rule (I know, God forbid we should adopt something from the newbies) and let shooters declare a longer yardage, but they have to stay there the rest of the shooting year.

    Sporting clays has the same rule about declining reductions, which is why about 70 per cent of the people in Master class are not competitive, but they get to brag that they shoot right up there with the "big dogs".
     
  18. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Amazing, every time a yardage debate the same "experts" come out.

    Hell, everybody pick a spot and lets shoot.

    Don
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Wrong Yardage<Does It Make anyDiffer

    Watch yourself, Don. This is a "sensitive issue."

    Neil
     
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