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Shooting Sixth Target on Station - Need Ruling

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Ontario Chris, Jan 9, 2011.

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  1. Ontario Chris

    Ontario Chris Member

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    While shooting a practice round recently, we had the leadoff shooter shoot a 6th target by mistake. No big deal, it was practice, we moved on. But, in the clubhouse, a big discussion ensued about what should happen if this was a registered event. Some said that the 6th target was invalid and should not be scored as it was shot out of turn. Others, said that it is the responsability of the scorer to tell the shooters to move and the target should be scored. We looked at the ATA rules book and found rules that seemed to be in conflict. an Neil Winston or some other rules interpreter make a decision on how this situation would be handled.

    Many Thanks,

    Chris
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be handled just as you did it. Laugh, no big deal, and move on. Just what i think. I don't know.

    Matt
     
  3. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen it scored as the 1st target on the next post and the squad moves and resumes the correct order.
     
  4. monroesc

    monroesc Member

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    Your second way is correct. It is the responsibility of the scorer to turn off the voice call button and have the shooters move. The sixth target counts however it was shot (dead vs lost). The squad now rotates and the #2 person is leadoff for this first shot.
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    I'd be curious to know what rules you found that conflicted with this one:

    Section VII, A, 6 - it is the duty of the referee/scorer to see that shooters change posts at the proper time; however, any targets shot after failure to move at the proper time shall be scored.

    Scott
     
  6. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    I'd also like to hear what the conflicting rules are.

    If you're thinking that the rule about shooting out of turn conflicts with this, that rule doesn't apply in the situation you described. The first shooter shot after the fifth shooter. That's how it's supposed to be.

    (monroesc and Scott Calhoun are correct.)
     
  7. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    target counts, move and continue
     
  8. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    I think the apparent conflict would be the rule immediately following the one that Scott referenced (although it's VII a 7 in the current book). VII a 8 deals with skipped posts and states that all shooters must shoot the requisite number of targets from each post.

    I believe that rule was put in the book a few years back after a missed post in a shoot off at some big shoot.

    I think that VIIa7 clearly addresses the situation in the original post.
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case Tom then how should we treat rule VII 5

    "5. Should more targets be fired in a sub-event than the event calls for, then the excess targets of the sub-event will not be scored."

    So if the shooter on one was allowed to change and lead off again would the he not eventually end the round with 26 targets???? One target more than allowed in that sub-event.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Bob,

    I agree with the others, that the extra target should count as shot. In fact, I clearly stated that VIIa7 clearly addresses the original post. In this case, you'd only score 25 targets.

    I was merely pointing out the other rule that I thought could have been the cause of the apparent conflict.

    Tom
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Tom I agree and I merely pointed out the rule which I think should clear up that conflict.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I can only comment on how it was handled on a squad I was on.

    The sixth target was called for and broke. The target was thrown out and shooting resumed with everyone at their proper station. The called for target was a lost target and that's how it stood. The shooter was in full agreement that this was the proper way to handle and score target in question.

    It was an honest mistake and scored in the most honest way possible.

    ss
     
  13. racer

    racer TS Member

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    The real rub appears when the shooter misses the "6th" bird. It shall be marked as a loss also- Dan
     
  14. topgun

    topgun TS Member

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    In spite of the reference to the existing rules to me it's common sense that you shoot five targets at each post period. If a sixth target is shot at it should not count and/or be declared "no target" regardless of the outcome. If indeed the scorer has the responsibility to turn off the mics (which I never heard of and simply thought some did it to conserve targets when shooters moved to a new post and adjusted the mic stand" then there would be a shared responsibility for the problem between the shooter and shoot management. Again shooting 6 targets from one post and 4 from another, and this is just my opinion, is absurd.
     
  15. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    The rule book is very clear, the result of the shot counts.

    Bob,

    They wouldn't shoot 26 because after you got everyone on the right post, the second shooter would start.
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid it isn't quite as absurd as shooting 26 targets and only scoring 25. That is a built in Do-Over.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Bob -

    Where did you get the idea that someone shooting an extra target on a post would lead to someone shooting 26 targets on a trap? It doesn't.

    I have some first hand experience with this rule . . . shooting the Great Lakes Grand a couple of years ago and it was raining, so I was wearing my Storm coat and had my shell box in the pocket instead of on my belt like usual. I couldn't see the shells in my pocket very well and thought I had one more in the row. I mounted and called before the scorekeeper could turn the button off or start calling scores. Even after shooting a 6th target on the post I didn't end up with 26 on the trap. The person in the second position took the first shot on the next post and we all ended up with 25 shots on that trap.

    Scott
     
  18. TjayE

    TjayE Member

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    I see there are a lot of shooters that do not know the rules. Scott Calhoun's explanation is the correct ruling for this situation. Or, you can do like a group of kids playing sandlot baseball and make up your own rules to suit yourself.

    Read the ATA rules book, V10 has the website address listed above.
     
  19. seitz647

    seitz647 Member

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    Sounds like a shoot management should rule on this - if I was scoring I would not have counted it - would have made him move and shoot over - JAM

    870 is correct so are others -
    rule states - It is the duty of referee/scorer to see that the shooters change posts at the proper time: however, any targets shot after failure to move at the proper time shall be scored
     
  20. 7571

    7571 Well-Known Member

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    It is totally amazing how many people on here CLAIM to be trapshooters and don't know ANY of the rules. Go to the A.T.A. website (www.shootata.com). Download the rule book and READ it. Maybe you will have to read it twice or maybe have someone read it to you.

    Thank you,,,,Tom
     
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