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*Shooting Behind Bird...Not Always Wrong

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Spook, Oct 2, 2007.

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  1. Spook

    Spook TS Member

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    The left angle from post one was difficult for me during my early days of shooting. I was taught to always LEAD angles but when I led the angle (no matter how much or how little) I shot in front of it. I thought maybe I was stopping my swing and shooting behind the bird but that proved not to be the case. I literally shot in front of it. Then, by accident, I found that firing slightly BEFORE I caught up with the bird was when I broke it harder and with more consistency.

    In the following years as I progressed and started shooting faster I began taking that target by instinct, almost unaware of where the gun was pointing or when it fired. That has proven to be the better method.

    However, I still remember the earlier days when "shooting behind the bird was not always wrong."

    Spook
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Welcome back Mr. Spook. The following post was copied from the thread about hard left angles from Post 1.

    Morgan, you and I seem to have pretty much the same style; Right handed 2 eyed shooter over the age of 60 with a low gun hold over the left corner and looking above the rib with a blinder on the rib. I notice that when shooting Post 1 from the 27, the sight picture seems so vague that it is like I am on "auto pilot" compared to a hard right angle off Post 5. I have learned to just accept the vague sight picture and use my instinct and "The Force" like Luke Skywalker rather than try to slow down and analyze it to death. I think Phil Kiner described this difference between left and right angles.
     
  3. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    "I found that firing slightly BEFORE I caught up with the bird was when I broke it harder and with more consistency."

    This is easily explained: When using the "swing-through" method, a person with extremely slow reflexes or a person using a gun with a lock time measurable with an hour-glass will have to commence his trigger pull extremely early in order to have the gun actually fire when it has swung ahead of the moving target.
    One of those two explanations (or, possibly, both) will explain Spook's conundrum. :)
     
  4. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    You may very well be behind the target when your brain gives the command to fire. By the time the gun actually fires you will be in front of the target, If you break it.


    BTW spooky old chap, You are a TROLL.






    Jim
     
  5. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    Who was that masked man??? Long time no read missed by at least one of TS.COM other trouble makers.

    PS: they call it TROLLING now !! Be advised.

    Rock

    Jim
     
  6. Spook

    Spook TS Member

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    code5coupe,

    Old news. One of the first rules I learned was to keep the gun moving. This thread was more for the newer or less gifted shooters.

    I have not visited the site for awhile so was not aware Phil had spoken on this subject. You can usually believe what he says. He may not be in my class but still...he does have his moments.

    Spook
     
  7. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    I'm serious when I say..."Never question what the Spook says". I've never known the Spook to be wrong!
     
  8. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Rock, Some how when I read your missive, The word jackanapes comes to mind.


    Jim
     
  9. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe it is just possible that your left eye is picking up that bird before the right one. Your site picture with the left eye will appear that you are behind the target while in reality with your right eye on the barrel you have the proper lead. Alot of shooters have cross eye dominence in situations where the left eye will pick up the bird first if the shooter does not have total right eye dominence. Your mind just gets used to it and you break the target without thinking about it if you just trust in the Force Be With You. I know it happens to me on certain shots, your mind just gets programmed to pull the trigger in the correct place, after it see's the correct picture. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  10. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    I have cross eye dominence in all situations. I use the force every shot. AJ
     
  11. ken a

    ken a Member

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    When I shoot behind the bird the word loss comes up consistantly. Not something you can count on. I'd have a lot better scores though if it worked!!!
     
  12. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    Right handers have more gun speed on left angles if their feet aren't twisted up. Thus less apparant "lead". Glad you trusted yourself and didn't accept the notion that you were doing something wrong because no-one else told you about it.Most shooters don't have a clue why they hit targets,even your "good" club shooters. Everybody just says,he's a natural.That's why you have a dozen or so trapshooters that win a lot and thousands that donate.The hords are too cheap to take lessons from a winner,and waste money digging deeper holes to climb out of,which they never do by enforcing bad habits over and over thousands of times and bitch about the "professionals". Oh, they get "hot" once in a while and that keeps them encouraged. Someone shakes their hand, buys them a drink and they're the hero for the day.Oh, Wow!
     
  13. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    first thing that came to my mind when you said you need to shoot behind the bird was that you were pulling your head off the stock instead of pushing your head with the stock.
     
  14. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    I shoot a lot of bunker. This lead thing discussed here is evident in spades on the bunker. Those birds move so fast that when the gun gets to them it is REALLY MOVING fast. Virtually all good bunker shooters have no awareness of lead. They go straight to the bird no matter how steep and flat the angle and shoot. The speed of the gun is so great that the swing through takes place and the lead is established without any conscious action. Folks who wander over to the bunker who usually shoot ATA or skeet they always want to talk about lead. The experienced bunker shooters will tell them they have no consciousness of lead. They just go directly to the bird and shoot it. The newbys are incredulous. But it is true. The birds are shot by instinct. And, the gun because of the speed of approach sort of creates its own lead. Regards, Jake
     
  15. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    "a person with extremely slow reflexes or a person using a gun with a lock time measurable with an hour-glass will have to commence his trigger pull extremely early in order to have the gun actually fire when it has swung ahead of the moving target"

    then

    "This thread was more for the newer or less gifted shooters."

    I figured you knew which of the two reasons (for you having to "shoot behind") actually applied in your case; my explanation was also for the less gifted shooters on this forum. :)
     
  16. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    I think it is safe to say bunker shooters use equipment with fast lock time and a reasonable amount of skill. Jake
     
  17. Bob A

    Bob A TS Member

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    As I read this, I recalled an epistle from Spook from a few years ago that, in combination with his above advice, will insure that we'll all soon be shooting as well as he does. I'd like to see him combine the two thoughts so that we can all benefit from his intellect, competence and wisdom.

    The old post was in regard to anticipating the target and his advice was to always anticipate the direction of the target and begin moving the gun just before calling, "Pull." I guess the thought here is to begin to learn proper anticipation techniques and that, in concert with shooting behind the target, can really lead to higher scores as well as reducing the energy used by having to move too quickly after being surprised once we see the targets.

    Thanks for all your guidance Spook.

    Bob
     
  18. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    You'r doing the right thing now; shooting the target by instinct. Don't worry how you are doing it, just keep doing it. Let those amobeas eat your brain, isn't that what the instructors say? AJ
     
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