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Shooters - the common thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by halfmile, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    With the TV on Newtown 24/7 of course we have some comment going on here at Toad Hall.

    I believe my wife hit the nail on the head when she remarked about the last couple years of shooting incidents. They are all of the age group that were kids when drugging children became an acceptable behavior modification for teachers and parents, a practice she abhors.

    We did get our grandson out of that situation at 16, and he had a hard time getting off the drugs but is pursuing a welding certification at the tech school and agrees with my wife about the Ritalin/Adderol and whatever else they use as being contributory.

    I think it's as good as any of the hand wringing going on but of course the News channels haven't broached that subject.

    Drugging took the place of discipline and structure, and I guess the chickens may be coming home to roost. Just an opinion.

    HM
     
  2. rooferbob

    rooferbob Active Member

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    HM I agree with your post. But most of our problems like this one, in my opinion, are to blamed on our very own created society. We have allowed this to happen because of no discipline and that is a fact.
    It is too late for us to change these bad habits now, and that is what is truly sad, this is what we have given our children and grandchildren.
    RIP United States of America!!
    My 2 cents! Rooferbob
     
  3. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Some of these miracle drugs are now being recognized as altering DNA. God only knows what damage is being done in the name of Health care. Plenty of unscrupulous people getting filthy rich, though.

    Kip
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I agree, seems like 20 years ago if a kid had a tantrum, instead of getting a spanking, they were bi-polar and given some drug Doctors were pushing for the pharmaceutical companies.

    Ban violent video games, and make kids go outside and play. A good whipping by the old man, or a black eye and a bloody lip from one of your friends taught you a lot.

    Wayne
     
  5. chuckie68

    chuckie68 Active Member

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    Halfmile,

    With the acceptance of Ritalin and other drugs as a way to control the behavior in kids, no one has bothered to teach these kids that violence is NOT OK!!! I agree with you 100%.

    Also in the absence of teaching kids about violence, we have discontinued the draft and never bothered to mention that DEAD IS FOREVER!!!

    Just my 2 cents.

    Chuck
     
  6. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    When I met my wife she had two boys, I have never fathered any kids (that I know of)when they youngest was in second grade he was having problems with acting up, he always was a ham, and the teacher didn't like it so she called for a parent teacher conference.

    My wife had a hard time getting off work so she asked me if I would go to the conference in her place, I said sure, when I got there there were about 6 or 7 "educators" in the room and me, they were all for giving John Ridlin or some other drugs. I said I was against it, the principle a bitter old hag that reminded me of the principle in the movie Uncle Buck, said "You know that there are drugs that he could take to make him act normal" I about blew a gasket, and and said "What the hell is normal?" "He acts normal right now, he acts the way he has always acted, he's just a ham, are all the kids supposed to act exactly the same way"

    They got all their panties in a wad, and tried to kind of gang up on me and shame me into drugging him.

    I just got up and said well if Nancy Reagan's drug policy is Just say no I guess her policy is good enough for me, and walked out of the room

    I didn't win any friends but still have a normal son
     
  7. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    A very insightful assessment I never thought of. Whatever the cause these monsters are out there, and of course the leftists who created these monsters will insist, as always, that the answer is to move farther to the left.
     
  8. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    Former Governor and Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee was on Fox news earlier today and said that when he went to school there were students with gun racks in their trucks and in the trunks of cars and it was a way of life to go hunting before or after school and there were NO School Shootings! Same is true when I went to school. No school shooting. What has changed? Its certainly not the availability of guns. But there are many changes since those good old days. One is that there is a great number of single parent households, no teaching right from wrong, the value of human life and the attitude that, "Oh, my son-daughter wouldn't do that." ed nichols
     
  9. McHale1

    McHale1 TS Member

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    Good for you Catpower!
     
  10. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Trapperwads on most of his post. Single parent households may not be as big a contributor as some feel, as you can always find at least one good kid from a single parent household for every bad one, and vice versa. There are a multitude of reasons why kids are out of control and violent: lack of parental time and guidance, excessively violent movies, video games, even cartoons, giving kids money and presents instead of love and attention, the prevalence of drugs in our society - prescribed as in Catpower's example, and illegal.

    I do believe, however, that the Dr.Spock method of raising children, with no corporal punishment, and "talking about their behavior, and why it is unacceptable", is at the root of the problem. If a child grows up knowing there will be no effective consequence for unacceptable behaviour, they will continue that behaviour into adulthood. The thing is, their behaviour gets more unacceptable, with greater consequences to others, as they get older. By the time a kid is about 12 or 13, their behaviour pattern is usually established for a lifetime. Witout a short, sharp comeuppance, they will be headed down the road to a lifetime of confrontations, which do nothing to improve their behaviour, usually. A parent who persists in believing that escalating patterns of behaviour will magically change for the better, or that behaviour they wouldn't countenance in someone else's kid is alright in theirs, is not doing the job they signed on for when they conceived that child. The fact that the shooter in this case was able to access his mother's firearms, when he had psychological problems, points to the mother being blind to his faults, or unable to believe he had any.

    Moral behaviour is the responsibility of the parents, NOT the school system or teachers, nor is it the responsibility of daycare providers, though some do an admirable job of instilling good behaviour. If parents aren't prepared to devote at least as much time to their children as they do to their job, or hobby, they shouldn't have kids. I know my own son, when watching the news with me one night, was horrified when a report came on about an attempt to make spanking a crime punishable by jail. He said, and I quote; "That's ridiculous! Every kid needs a spanking occasionally." He didn't mean a scheduled spanking or a beating, but a quick swat on the behind when they weren't behaving properly. He was about 15 or 16 at the time.

    Giving kids responsibility at a young age is another thing not done much anymore. Not just taking out the garbage, or cleaning their room, but such things as having animals to take care of - feeding and cleaning up after, taking the kids to the range, and letting them shoot as much as they want, or can handle. My kids started shooting a J frame S&W .22 (with my help!) at 2 1/2 and 3 years old, respectively, and progressed to rifles and shotguns as they got big enough to handle them. My son worked as a trapkid, loading and scoring, starting at 8 years old, my daughter at 9 or 10. They both also had animals they cared for, and were in Army cadets. They both had a couple of wobbles in their teens, as did we all, but today are both good kids, and contributing members of society.

    There isn't a magic wand we can wave that will make every kid a good one, or will prevent tragedies like this one from occuring again, but as the saying goes: "It takes a village to raise a child". We all bear responsibility when something like this happens, and we knew the person or persons involved, we knew they were a half bubble off true, and we did nothing about it. Someone, somewhere near this shooter, knew there was a problem, but didn't act, and a tragedy resulted. Perhaps this will make us all a little more aware, and may prevent such a thing happening again.
     
  11. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    The only common thread I've see regarding mass killings is that they are always perpetrated by relatively young males, not one female in the bunch and no senior citizens. Since males and females have the same access to guns, watch the same movies, have the same parents, go to the same schools, take the same drugs, play the same games, watch TV, text, use Facebook, use cellphones and lots of other things people on this forum have tried to blame for these tragedies, this would seem to rule out all of these societal factors.

    Short of castrating all males it's not likely that a "solution" to mass killings by males will ever be found. They didn't just start recently, they've been going on for a long time but just not publicized as much as they are today. Granted they are more prevelent today but we reward them by giving them weeks of fame rather than 15 minutes. The news media have interview every person in that CT town by now and just keep babbling even though they have nothing new to say.

    Obviously, cowardly killers prefer free fire zones like schools. How many of these cowards have ever tried to attack the attendees at a gun show? a police station? Arming some teachers, while not completely perventing this kind of thing, would be a very powerful deterrent. Some don't think teachers would agree to be armed and some certainly wouldn't, but many don't like being targets for crazies. All it would take is to give them a stipend for being armed and you would get more volunteers than you would ever need.

    For those fools who want to ban this gun, that gun, this magazine, that magazine, what good would that do since there are already plenty of guns available to attack ever school in the country 20 times over? The crazies will continue doing this until it becomes obvious that their mission won't succeed, then it will stop. Arming teachers would, at the least, be a good start.
     
  12. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Mr. Galt, there is a young woman school shooter. I can't remember where, I want to say California, and she has been in prison for maybe 30 years and has never shown a hint of remorse.

    Here is one of I think two female shooters:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
     
  13. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    OK, there are a couple of exceptions to the rule, but 99.99% are men. I should have said "almost always" instead of "always", but it's obvious that women are way, way to under represented for it to be a statistical anomoly.
     
  14. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Young, male, socially inept, likes video games, often times a divorced family, and a parent who knew (or should have known) the kid had a problem, but couldn't admit that it was more than they could handle.


    And it's spot-on about drugging the kid. That just gets it out of the school's hair for the moment...until the kid grows older, quits taking the meds - then reappears one day for his 5 minutes of fame.


    Liberals are the ones who chiefly advocate that the mentally unbalanced can be constructively interacted with and bettered. Will they step up to the plate on this? I'm ready to listen. Or will they just call for gun control? Because the drugged-into-submission model isn't working.
     
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