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Shoot software, on line results, and ATA uploads

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Jun 27, 2009.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    After the IL state shoot, we're noticing a delay in the posting of results. All the numbers have been entered somewhere, because they were posted via computer print out on the board at the shoot. It should be a 'simple' matter of uploading the data, once it has been entered by hand, to a website and even to the ATA website so your own personal scores are up to date. Wouldn't that be great? The data shouldn't have to be re-entered by hand.

    Paper printouts at the IL state shoot were phenominal. You can see winnings money wise, standings in different events, and even scores per shooter. This was very well organized. Taking it on line shouldn't be too hard. Maybe I can help.

    I'm wondering what software is used at the state shoots? Is it all the same, or has each state fended for themselves? Even small local shoots should be able to benefit from some work here. Enter the names and numbers once and then transfer...

    I'm hoping to go to the IN and WI state shoots, so I'll look into it further. Has any work been done on this?
     
  2. Don S

    Don S Member

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    The Illinois State Shoot was done by Don Cain of Cain ShootCompute.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Joe- There are several different cashiering programs that are used by different clubs. But, you are correct, downloading to the ATA computer should be relatively simple. The EC has been looking at this idea for some time. The ATA is concerned about protecting its data base. We wouldn't want some hacker downloading something bad into the ATA computer.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. mike31z

    mike31z Member

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    I sure that computer transfer of the shooter scores could be done with a little data cooradination. Its the transfer of the money from the shoot to the ATA that still take the US Mail. Then the scores could be posted. Maybe the ATA and the large shoot events should get PAYPAL and who going to pay that fee.

    Just a thought.
     
  5. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Pat,

    They should be able to have the data exported by the local folks, and sent to an employee who uploads it to the ATA puter 'in house'. Upload option could be limited to internal in network folks.

    Did a search on ShootCompute which brought me right back to ts.com and a thread about the CA state shoot results. Looks like the online posting problem has already been solved for ShootCompute by David for CA. Hah!
     
  6. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    How about an FTP site? Clubs would have the ability to upload results and it's safe and secure. We have an FTP site at my work that we upload huge files to for clients to then download. They also have access to upload files for us. Works great and we've never had a security issue. Just a thought.
     
  7. bbourdage

    bbourdage Member

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    Hello Joe,
    The ATA does have the ability to import results into the master database, it only takes seconds. The time delay is the club submitting the results.

    The best way to improve the response time is to contact the club directly and ask them to submit the results as soon as possible.

    Notice the ATA home page today, 3 clubs have submitted their results for last weekend, and they were posted eariler today, Also notice that the Ohio shoot results are not posted.

    Barry
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    bbourdage

    "Notice the ATA home page today, 3 clubs have submitted their results for last weekend, and they were posted eariler today, Also notice that the Ohio shoot results are not posted."

    Barry just a few points of interest you said ATA home page. From that I am think that you are talking looking on the ATA home page under "Clubs and Shoots" if you or anyone is interested check all the state association in your Zone that have already had their State Shoots. You just might be surprised as how many haven't posted the results of those shoots.

    Another point of interest on the ATA home page under general information, Various Statistics you will find that ATA shooters only 58% own a computer and of the 58% only 46% have internet access. Now it would seem to me that the person that started this thread and appears to be complaining.

    Would seem to be in the minority of ATA shooters and yet he is not satisfied with the speed with which the results of shoots are posted.

    "After the IL state shoot, we're noticing a delay in the posting of results. All the numbers have been entered somewhere, because they were posted via computer print out on the board at the shoot."

    It would also seem that shoot records that need to be added to each individual shooters records shouldn't take priority over his/your and my minority status.

    Each association must submit information to be posted to "Clubs and Shoots" there is a time limit if the limit in exceeded the ATA does not post the results. I do not however believe that individual club or state association has direct access to the "Shooter Information Center" I believe that, that information must be posted by the ATA office I could be wrong but that is how it was explained to me.

    BTW it is also interesting to note that on the Illinois web sight there are no scores posted either.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Bob,

    Just trying to get the scores posted somewhere; paper, computer, I don't really care. I attended the IL shoot so I'm interested.

    David (from ts.com) posted the CA state shoot results and if we can put him in touch with the guy who has the data for the IL shoot, the results can be easily posted for folks with 'puters to see.

    You see, I'm trying to help solve a problem.

    I've not received anything on paper either. All shooters are getting nuttin. How's that for a majority?

    One thing I've learned. You'd better write your scores down on your average card, because you may never see them again; local or state shoot, paper or pixels, it doesn't seem to matter.

    The ATA doesn't have any of my numbers. Looks like a problem to solve. Granted I've only been to two shoots since the kids got out of school, but I'm a little surprised.
     
  10. RLSS

    RLSS TS Member

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    Joe,

    Patience is a virture.

    And, you are REQUIRED to write your scores on your card. You know what you broke. How hard can it be.

    RLSS
     
  11. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    It's not a big deal. Just nice to see scores on line.
     
  12. WilliamMR

    WilliamMR Active Member

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    Joe,

    Not to beat a dead horse here, but maybe your beef is not with the ATA. I noticed that you shot the Downer's Grove Shoot on 6/7/09, as Downers emailed the ATA the scores to the "Results" page of the ATA website. This is not the same as sending in the ATA scores with the paperwork. However, your personal scores are not posted to the Shooter Information Center, on the ATA website.

    As a contrast, our shoot on 6/7/09 at Glen Park Izaak Walton has been posted to the Shooter Information Center for about a week now. So one asks the question, what's the variable here. Obviously it's an issue at the club level, not ATA. If they don't send it in on time, it won't be posted on time.

    Bill Radwan
     
  13. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I see Bill. Thanks for the info. Sometimes I just blab alot and it gets me information unbeknownst here to fore.
     
  14. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Joe,
    I for one agree with you.

    It was nice to go to the RJ Stuart site after the Ohio State and verify my scores. I had to rush home and did not realize I won my class Doubles on Sunday until yesterday. I found I had miscounted on one event too.

    It was also nice to look up how my friends did.

    If you old pharts don't get it yet, the younger shooters are very computer savvy. They are the future; so, we better cater to their "needs/wants" even if those "needs/wants" are not necessary for some.

    What Joe is suggesting is a one time effort that makes things easier and better moving forward. What was acceptable 20 years ago is outdated now. It is like using a rotary phone - sure it still works; but who the heck uses one?

    Don Verna
     
  15. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Joe, maybe if you think it's a 'simple' matter you should offer to cashier a reasonable size shoot sometime.

    My club hosted a two-day shoot the weekend of June 20-21. I 'helped" cashier it, using the 3S software. Saturday the program was 200 doubles, 100 singles, 100 handicap. Sunday was 100 singles, 100 handicap, 100 handicap. As each event progresses, we enter the scores as they come in, and when they are all in, run the trophy report to figure who won what. If there are no clear winners we must figure out who is in the shootoffs. If a person has multiple options we need to find out which he/she wants ("Do you want to take class or category?"). We need to run the options and purses because everyone wants to know how much money they won. We need to run labels for the scoresheets for the next event. If it's a handicap we need to run the earned yardage report and a report to see whether the punches have caused squadding problems. If so, we need to track down some people and resquad them. When the last event is done we need to build the payoff files, print the checks and check register reports, all the while figuring how much the trap kids are owed and writing checks for them, handing out trophies, taking pictures for Trap & Field and On Target, running the summary financial report, and on and on.

    Our shoot finished up around 2:30. We had checks for the people still around by 3 PM or so. The Club does not have internet access so I went home and had the file with the scores plus another with earned yardage reports emailed to the ATA by 6 PM. Checking the ATA's Shooter Information Center a few minutes ago I notice that my scores are still not posted as of a few minutes ago, even though they had all the scores for that shoot waiting for them in electronic form when they opened for business Monday morning, June 22. I don't blame them at all for that - it's a very busy time of year for shoots. On the other hand I don't get paid to cashier the shoots - I'm a volunteer, not very web proficient - and I'm not going to take the time to post the scores on the web just to satisfy your curiousity. I've already taken all the time I care to spend on it.
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    joe kuhn

    "David (from ts.com) posted the CA state shoot results and if we can put him in touch with the guy who has the data for the IL shoot, the results can be easily posted for folks with 'puters to see."

    Well Joe I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe that David would refuse to do the same for Ill if they asked him about it and maybe made a small donation to the web site. You however make it sound like he needs to contact them that is not the case.

    BTW I am not positive but I believe that a certain level of computer knowledge is needed to post the score in the manner that is displayed in the threads that you are referring to. After all most of old Pharts don't posses that knowledge. (savvy) At least according to dverna.

    Don your assumption that the youth is the future. Only seems to prove that the youth that frequent this sight are a very small percentage of the 46% of ATA members who have internet services.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. WilliamMR

    WilliamMR Active Member

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    Joe, it appears you may learn a little more here, which is a good thing. Each club has their own circumstances, some less complicated than others. I would suggest that the next shoot you go to, take an interest on the procedures at that club. No two clubs are identical in their procedures.

    At some of the smaller shoots, those working the shoot would also like to shoot. I don't know anyone at our club that would give up shooting just to work the shoot, me included. I cashier at our club. On 1/1/08 my wife retired and assists me. She checks the scores coming in, enters them into the computer (3S program), prints & posts them to the bulletin board, and does some steps after an event is over. Then she pays out options after I run the reports. It makes it less stressful for me. Then there's the paperwork that night that needs to go to the ATA, issues checks to be mailed out to people who don't want to stay around to collect their money, email shoot report to Trap & Field magazine, email scores to the ATA to be posted to the "Shoot Results" ATA website. There's more, but I'm already tired.

    Come down to our shoot this coming Sunday, and I'll give you a tour of what's involved. And, based on your Downers handicap score, maybe you got a shot at the Hanidcap $500 Bounty we are offering this Sunday.

    Bill Radwan
     
  18. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I'm working on finding the person with the data from IL. David has told me what he needs...

    I'm sure a shoot his a heck of a lot of work. At Downers I noticed just how long those computer folks were chained to their machines - all day.

    Put the right stuff in the hands of the right guy and it'll be on line in a flash. It shouldn't have to be typed in more than once. It's probably already in a format that's useable.

    One thing is obvious from this thread. It's damn hard to communicate on line. My only real intention here is to make data that's already out there widely available to those who would like to view it. I'm not complaining....I'm not asking David to do the footwork...I am wanting to get back to breaking targets...

    bah
     
  19. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Some of you should re-read Joe's posts - he wasn't complaining or questioning the amount of effort it takes to run a shoot. In fact the opposite is true. He was questioning why, with all the effort it takes to run the shoot and provide results on the bulletin board outside the clubhouse, the results can't be posted in an electronic fashion (ATA, club website, etc.). Really just trying to leverage all the work that is already being done.

    Question for RLSS - you are correct, it's your reponsibility to write down your scores, but consider this. I had a buddy shoot a 96 in a handicap event 3+ weeks ago, first squad out. He shot and went home. He was on the 22.5 yard line at that shoot. He showed up at my club Sunday to shoot handicap, and had all his scores on his card. Where should he be standing? Here's a hint - you (and I) can't figure it out based on the information that is available to us.

    Scott
     
  20. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    I believe that a 96 is an automatic 1/2 yard punch and therefore he should be on the 23 yard line.

    Rick in Mt.
     
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