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Shimming front bead/sight?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeet_man, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Was wondering if anyone had tried this before?

    I noticed that the more I raise my comb, the better I see the targets. In fact, one day on a whim, I tried shooting some targets mounting the gun on the side of my jawbone, rather than under my cheekbone like I normally do (so basically the same sight picture as if I'd raised my comb up over an inch), and not only did I see targets better than I ever have before, I hit them better as well. The only downside is the loss of control since your just kinda setting the gun on the side of your face, rather than getting down into it when its under your cheekbone.

    However, I think I may be getting to the point where if I raise the comb any higher, the POI might be too high.

    My thought is to make a 1/8" shim/spacer under the front bead. I use a Hiviz Comp-Sight, so I made a little riser out of aluminum thats about 1 3/4" to 2" long. It has about an inch or so of ramp (7 degrees), then an inch or so of flat for the bead to sit on.

    I mucked the first one up b/c I cut it much wider than I really need, but just to play around, I put it and another hiviz on my rib with a couple wraps of electrical tape, and can see that there is definitely some potential.

    I currently use a 1/4" add-on rib, and while that does a lot to get the gun/receiver and barrels out of my peripheral vision, this new riser does a lot to get the rib out of my vision as well, to the point where theoretically the only thing you'll see is the bead and the bird, with nothing else to block your vision (I guess it would kinda be a super-micro version of the short rib guns the international trapshooters are using).

    Any thoughts? I plan on trying it out in the next couple weeks, but thought I'd see if anyone else has been down this path before.
     
  2. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

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    Take off the front bead and look at the target.
     
  3. wlc

    wlc Member

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    Isn't this what the short rib Perazzi is supposed to do?
     
  4. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    As usual, someone asks a serious question and gets inane advice. You would think people would look up someone before responding. Ian is AAA across the board. Every good shooter I know is always trying to find that extra target in a 1000.

    Ian, I have played with the same thing you are doing and something happened to the dynamics that did not work for me. Sounded good, didn't work.

    Michael Goines
     
  5. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    flincher, skeet_man knows how to shoot.
     
  6. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Flincher- LOL. Not to sound egotistical, but you CLEARLY have no clue who I am, or what I've done in my shooting career. With a .9850 .410 average (which will be tied for 4th in the World this year), I must be doing something right. BTW, since you saw fit to question my shooting prowess, why not post your NSSA, NSCA, or ATA number so we can check out yours?? Also, you can see all of my averages and accomplishments at: http://www.nssa-nsca.org/Lookups/NSSA_Member_History.php?id=159522 if you really want to.

    WLC- Theoretically, yes, but on a much smaller and much less extreme scale.

    Michael- By dynamics, do you mean the swing characteristics, or something else?

    BTW, was watching the youtube video of you and LP shooting off @ the World yesterday.
     
  7. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Ian,
    There had been some discussion about this related to sporting clays.
    Several of the top sporting clay shooter mount the gun so that the comb barely touches the jawbone. The make no attempt to line up the beads. They just point and shoot. Kruger, Radulovich, DeMichiel, Miles shoot this way. Other top
    shooters do lock the gun into their cheekbone, e.g. Matarese, McGuire.

    I have done that shooting trap and it worked great for that day - but the
    next time I tried it, I found I lost the relationship between the gun and
    the target. I'm now back to having the gun locked into my face.

    You might find it works one day and not the next like I did.
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Dick- What I'd like to accomplish is the view of the jawbone mount, but the stability and repeatability of the cheekbone mount. I've also thought about jacking the comb way up, to get this, but IDK, for some reason I have the feeling that it won't be the same as the jawbone mount (plus my comb is as high as it will go without changing out posts, which is a pain in the butt).

    I also think that you can get away with the jawbone mount with the bigger gauges, but I'm not sure how well it would play out w/ the .410...
     
  9. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Mounting the gun with the comb on the side of the jawbone instead of up under the cheekbone, isn't this the way with most low sloping combed field guns? Maybe it works well in a game where you start with an unmounted gun, for me at least in Trap where you start with a pre-mounted gun a higher comb tucked up under the cheekbone works better.

    John C. Saubak
     
  10. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Ian,
    Do you think it was the jawbone mount that you liked, or the fact that it was a heads-up position on the stock. I know a number of shooters -including skeet shooters- who are going to a high ribbed gun. The comb still is in contact with the cheekbone, but the head is upright.

    Of course, the sporting clays shooters I referred to start with an unmounted gun, and aren't shooting at fast close-in skeet targets. Still, they have to be as precise shooting a 12 gauge as a 410 because some of the targets they
    hit consistently are 60-70 yards away.
     
  11. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I liked the visibility of the target, and the field as a whole, more than anything else.

    I've tried the "heads up" style of shooting, and don't shoot as well, or see the target as well, as my typical pad low in the shoulder, scrunched into the gun style. I just can't seem to have the same level of aggressiveness with a relaxed, "heads up" mount.
     
  12. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Ian,

    I didn't know there was a video, just watched, what an ugly move on the second bird, shot the Low 4 too quick.

    Frank Callahan shoots pretty good with his chin just barely touching the comb.

    I learned to shoot with my head tilted forward such that I look through the top of the lenses of my Decot shooting glasses. This means there is not much vertical eye movement left. If a target bounces enough to use up this play, the only option to to lift my head to see the target. I tried shooting an 682 X-Trap barrel, it was like trying to hit a baseball standing on one leg. I might have adjusted, but was not willing to pay the price. If my arthritic neck gets any worse, I will have to do something similar. That is what I meant by dynamics.

    Michael
     
  13. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    The type of mount you use seems very similar to that used in international trap. Low mount in the shoulder and the head and body are more in line with the gun. This seems to help give the shooter leverage for the very quick and wide range of movement required in both international trap and skeet.
     
  14. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Tried it today with mixed results. Not giving up on it yet. I definitely thing it'll be better when I blacken the rib (its just raw aluminum right now), and attach it by means other than a couple wraps of electrical tape LOL.
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I think what you are saying; the higher you raise your comb, the clearer the target view? Which says to me, your head is more upright and your eyes are looking more straight ahead creating this clear view. However a problem has occured when you raise the comb to this more comfortable level. The raised comb has raised your poi higher than your normal sight picture. Your remedy, is to raise your front bead with shims which in effect lowers the point of impact. Assuming you use your front bead as your bead barrel reference i.e. sight picture, then you are on the correct path. If you don't use the bead as your reference point then the barrel being the larger mass will in effect will take over becomimg the reference point causing a higher poi.

    Although I've put larger diameter beads to lower poi, I would think a higher shimed bead may be a distraction to your eye, maybe not. You may consider the painted black strip of balsa wood taped to your rib with your existing bead as a way to go. You may find, a higher rib than one you have now will solve this problem.

    Surfer
     
  16. Derek-C

    Derek-C TS Member

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    Hi skeet man

    Had trouble logging on but fixed now.

    re heads up shooting.Was this what you meen.
    derekc_2011_10111.jpg


    Derek
     
  17. Danby

    Danby Member

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    I have a neck problem like you described, I added a 1 1/4 inch addarib to my Browning ,raised the comb up to give me the same sight picture, lowered my adjustable butt plate so I have the same feel, my head is now upright and cheek on comb like before, I am shooting scores like before, but no neck pain! I tried with a balsa wood rib I made first to get the right height,then ordered the rib. U might try it, it gives me more of a wild open picture of the targets,took a little bit to get use to it ......
     
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