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SETTING REGISTERED TARGETS QUESTIONS

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by HOT-HAMMER, Jan 3, 2008.

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  1. HOT-HAMMER

    HOT-HAMMER TS Member

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    Local trap club wants to set up to throw registered targets, trap machine is two feet lower (at resting target on arm on a GP trap) than ground elevation (#3 at 16 yds.). Throwing off a steep hill (no 50 yard stake, estimated about 60 to 70 feet drop at 50 yards). Tee-post would have to be 21 feet tall for a 9 foot set. Can this clubs trap machine be set up to throw registered targets? If so, would the Tee-post need to be adjusted to allow for the elevation on the #3 16 yd. post? Can they use a radar gun to set speed (no 50 yd.stake)?...Thanks, Rick
     
  2. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    I think that you have to address the target on the machine arm and the position of ground elevation at post 3. These have to match to start out with. Must be level. We had to cut off the pilliar that the machine sat on so wit would match the pad on post 3. We just got our fields approved a few months ago.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Target distance can easily be set with speed using a radar gun. Target height can be properly set with both a good angle gage and an experienced shooter. A trap set too low in the house will throw targets with more face showing, and thus a little easier to hit but the difference will not be a great as some would believe. Not every club throwing registered targets has everything set up exactly right. I would elevate the machine as high as possible in the house and then, through your state secretary, apply for hosting ATA shoots.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. clayman51

    clayman51 Member

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    Two feet below the 16 yard line is a lot of difference and really increases the angle out at the height stake. Having a little more face on the target is not a bad thing but what usually happens on windy days you get air current up under the target which makes for a very high uncontrollable target. I would raise the machine as much as possible. If it is possible to raise the roof another coarse of block with out getting the house too high I would do so. Throwing a good target that keeps your customer coming back to shoot is the name of the game!!

    Dennis
     
  5. clayman51

    clayman51 Member

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    He is a drawing showing the difference between a target set with the arm level with the 16 yard laine and one that is 2 feet deeper. This is on a good day, get the wind to do some up lifting and you have a out of control target.

    Dennis
     
  6. HOT-HAMMER

    HOT-HAMMER TS Member

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    Thanks, I really appreciate the information from all who responded. Nice drawing Dennis, the impression I get from looking at the drawing is if the t-post is lowered to the bottom of the reg. target range (8’ to 10’), it would off-set the angle a little. Please correct me if I am wrong about the 8’ to 10’ (above resting target on arm) reg. target height at 10 yards from house. I’m going to pass all information to the club, and just trying to anticipate any questions they may have....Thanks again...Rick
    P.S. they have had their current trap machine hight for about 30 years, and the old-timers may not want to change it. I would like them to do what ever is needed to throw a ideal target so when I go to other clubs there's no big adjustment needed...Rick
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Rick, I've shot targets off of a trap machine set even lower than yours. Without major changes, setting them at 8 foot is about as close as you'll get. Even then, you'll notice a time difference between your call and the bird appearing at the proper elevation to be shot. In turn, this makes other clubs targets appear quicker to you also. Hap
     
  8. HOT-HAMMER

    HOT-HAMMER TS Member

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    Dennis, your drawing show’s the pole height being measured from the elevation of the 16 yd. #3, shouldn’t it be measured from the resting target on the trap arm? And when the trap machine is dropped two feet, the pole height is dropped also? In effect making the target have the same trajectory? And perceived flight trajectory from the shooter would be no more then a 7’ shooter and a 5’ shooter?....Thanks Rick
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HOT-HAMMER- The answer to your question to Dennis is no. The only thing that the height of, and distance to, that is measured from the target on the arm is the elevation form the 16 yard line. Ideally, they are the same. The 16 yard line should be 16 yards from point B and not from the target. The height pole should be measures as 26 yards from post 3, 16 yard line, or 10 yards from point B. Point B may, or may not be the same as the target on the arm. A good 9.5 foot target would be 9.5 feet above the pad, 26 yards from post 3.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. HOT-HAMMER

    HOT-HAMMER TS Member

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    Pat, thanks for your response, if I’m wrong it’s because I may be confused about the second paragraph from the ATA rule book....Thanks,...Rick.......



    E. FLIGHTS AND ANGLES
    Singles targets shall be thrown not less than 49 yards nor more than 51
    yards. Distance measurements are on level ground in still air. Targets
    shall be between 8 feet and 10 feet high, when 10 yards from Point
    B. The recommended height is 9 or 9 1/2 feet. The height at a point
    10 yards from Point B is to be understood to mean height above an
    imaginary horizontal straight line drawn through the post and Point B.
    (See Diagram I)
    Target height may also be set based on the height of the target at ten
    yards as measured above the level of the trap arm in the house rather
    than the height as measured from the number 3 shooting station. This
    is the recommended procedure at facilities where the installation of
    traps in the houses is inconsistent as to height.
     
  11. clayman51

    clayman51 Member

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    Rick,

    If you look at page 56 in your rule book you will see where Pat is coming up with his explaination. It is the centerline and the intersection line (point B) where the measurements are coming from. and then read the last sentance of the 1st paragaph on page 48 E flights and angles. Key words here are (Horizonal line)
    I think this explains it also.

    Not a real clear drawing but wanted you to see the difference and how it effects target setting.

    Dennis
     
  12. clayman51

    clayman51 Member

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    Rick, Pat,

    Ok you guys made me dig up one more drawing. This shows the center line of point B

    It looks like it is 21 inches from the front of the trap house.

    See photo image above

    Dennis
     
  13. setter

    setter Member

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    HOT-HAMMER quotes from the rulebook:
    "Target height may also be set based on the height of the target at ten yards as measured above the level of the trap arm in the house rather than the height as measured from the number 3 shooting station. This is the recommended procedure at facilities where the installation of traps in the houses is inconsistent as to height."

    And I think what HOT-HAMMER is trying to understand is it 9.5 ft above the level at 16 yd line post three? or 9.5 ft above the level of the trap?

    The above rule says 9.5 ft above the level of the trap.
     
  14. clayman51

    clayman51 Member

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    Setter,

    Correct.

    Going back to his original post he can set the target according to this and be a legal target. It just comes down to the difference in height if they want to live with the way it is.

    Hope this helps Rick

    Dennis
     
  15. setter

    setter Member

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    Dennis,

    I absolutely agree, thanks.

    Jim
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This is tuning into a very interesting thread. Rule XIII E- first paragraph states that the target height should be measured from the 16 yard line.

    But, the second paragraph states that the target height may also be measured from the height of the target on the arm. This method is "recommended.....when the installation of traps in the houses is inconsistant...

    I am reading the second paragraph to apply to a club with several houses that have inconsistently mounted traps. HOT-HAMMER asked about a club with one trap that was mounted three feet below the singles line.

    HOT-HAMMER also stated that a height pole is impractical at his club. It is also clear, that if a height pole was practical, the height of the pole could be questioned. The rule book is not quite clear and may even be contradictory.

    HOT-HAMMER- At my club a height pole is not practical. It would have to be longer than the pole required at your club. I set the speed of the targets with a radar gun and then stand on post three and with the best of my limited ability, set the height by looking at a few targets. I also ask a couple of other shooters to help me. I watch the targets during the events and do not hesitate to make any adjustments that will help the shooters. I need to find my Trig book and calculate the correct height of the targets at 5 and 7 yards from point B. I think I can make height poles that would work at these distances.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pat, hothammer says the target rests 2 feel below station 3 pad. I think he's looking for advice on how to set the elevation of the clays which is best for ATA type shooting? Those clays set according to the rule won't resemble clays at other clubs. Close is about as good as he's gonna get with the arm being two feet below the pad on station three. A 7-1/2 to 8 foot target is about as close as they can get it without some major changes, NO? Any higher set than than that, the elevation and the targets would be way too high? Talk about a deceiving looking target! Hap
     
  18. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Set them anyway you want to but if the first squad of experienced shooters don't like them, you will be resetting them anyway.
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    JBrooks is exactly right. Just set them so they look good to experienced shooters and call the squads to the line.

    Neil
     
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