1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Separating Fed Hulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Pete F (PA), Oct 26, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pete F (PA)

    Pete F (PA) TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    310
    Last week at our weekly shoot.

    One shooter had 3 shells pull apart and the plastic stick in the barrel.

    He said they were from this years Grand Gold Metals

    He Retired a discusted shooter

    Has any one else experinced this?

    What would be the problem?

    Thanks Pete
     
  2. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,513
    Location:
    Idaho
    It happens to me with Fed paper reloads after too many times
     
  3. Pete F (PA)

    Pete F (PA) TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    310
    He Said they were 1st load

    And he is a experinced old time loader

    Pete
     
  4. perazzitm

    perazzitm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    75
    Was it the plastic tube or the base wad, last I heard Fed GM are of one piece construction.
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,843
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    Sounds like Hoyah to me (old joke).

    HM
     
  6. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,513
    Location:
    Idaho
    What happens is you end up with a base and the hull stays in the chamber, I have always been able to stick my finger inside the hull and slide it out easily, but these are papers
     
  7. Mirage Combo

    Mirage Combo TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    happens on the smooth hulls about halk to 3 quarters of an inch above the
    brass. the older ones seem to last a lot longer.

    Their top guns are ribbed,like the older GM.
     
  8. Joe McGorman

    Joe McGorman TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    120
    Pete, I had that happen to me about 6 years ago with federal gold medal hulls. It happened more than once in a matter of a few weeks. I took a sample too Federal at the Grand American(Vandalia) and the Federal rep said it must have been a bad batch of plastic and that it probably would not happen again. Federal gave me a box of shells for my trouble but I have not reloaded Gold Medals since.

    The plastic seperated about a half an inch above the brass and the plastic stayed in the barrel, when I ejected the casing I looked down the barrel and there it was and I could not get it out until I got home with a piece of wooden dowelling. The two other times the plastic tube had came out the end of the barrel with the shot but when I ejected the hull it was the brass and half inch of plastic hull left. Hope this helps. Joe McGorman
     
  9. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    902
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I have had this in my mind for a while and it s a perfect time to bring it up.

    If you havent thought about it, when you fire a shell, there is a large forward force on the crimp which is restrained by the brass in the chamber. This opens the crimp obviously, but it also pulls on the entire circumference of the tube and stretches it. The tube is crimped between the base wad and the brass. The stress is the crimp force per cross sectional area of the plastic tube. In Rifenhauser tubes, the plastic thickness is constant over the length of the shell. The stress would be constant over the length as well except for a few things like flame erosion in the tube wall near the base wad and a general tendency for stress to maximize towards the center of an object being pulled apart. ie a stress test sample usually breaks in the middle. In compression formed shells, the tube gets thicker as you reach the base area. so the stress is spread out.

    New shells (crimps) exert the greatest resistance to opening and so get stretched and stressed the most and are most likely to fail. The stress riser at the joint of the brass base and bottom of the wad powder cup can easily cause failure. Temperature factors can make the shell more brittle and failure prone.

    For these reasons I like only the old style AA's, gun clubs and STS hulls.
    They shoot till the lips fall off. With fast powders, crimp quality has les sof an effect on velocity (test it and see) than for slower powders or lighter pay loads


    regards bruce
     
  10. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    I believe the run causing this problem was either early last year or end of prior year. This problem occured for those reloaders using a non collet type resizing system.
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,527
    Location:
    SE PA
    Pete, I've had that happen many times. In fact, I stopped reloading GM plastic hulls for just that reason. I recently acquired 2000 of them to develop bunker loads, and I am again experiencing the problem.

    The hulls are a mix of old and new, once fired. My reloader has a full length collet rezsizer, and it is set properly. GM plastic hulls are not one piece. The base wad is separate and is "welded" to the straight wall. You can see this easily when you cut a hull apart. The separation always seems to be at the joint of the top of the base wad with the hull. That's just about where the top of the brass is. The wall of the hull is forced into the forcing cone where it sticks. Sometimes I'm lucky and it comes out with a chamber brush. If no part of the front edge of the hull is bent in you have nowhere to grab. If you cannot hook it with something you'll have to force it out the front of the barrel. What a pain.

    BTW, this happend in three Perazzi barrels. The gentleman who gave me the hulls shot them in a K-80 with nary a problem. My chambers are 3", so maybe that is a contributing factor.
     
  12. Pete F (PA)

    Pete F (PA) TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    310
    It was the plastic tube stuck past the forcing cone
    He got them out but was a project
    Pete
     
  13. KS-OKIE

    KS-OKIE TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    Gladstone, Missouri
    I have been reloading Federals hulls since 1980.Load on a Spolar.A bunch of once fired blown in half shells lately.A new wad pushed by a dowel rod from the end of the bbl back through the chamber end (remove choke tube first).I do not get anywhere near the number of reloads with the smoothies as the old ribbed ones....John.
     
  14. Pete F (PA)

    Pete F (PA) TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    310
    What should He do with these hulls has about 2000 left

    Pete
     
  15. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,048
    Had that happen with factory fresh Federal Top Guns this week-end. It went half way down the chamber and had to be removed by a dowel from the muzzle end. Good luck, Bob
     
  16. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,262
    Yeah......me too! Way too many times! New Gold Medal hulls are by far the worst pieces of S#IT out there! If I were stuck with 2000 of them, I'd use them for air rifle target practice!

    AndyH ;-)
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,945
    Smooth plastic Federal hulls are junk. Reload them at your own risk. HMB
     
  18. dverna

    dverna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,717
    Also had the same problem. Thankfully not in an auto or pump.

    Federal admitted to one of my friends they had a problem batch(es). The brass base has a sharp edge that cuts into the plastic and causes the hull to separate.

    They got tired of taking complaints and do not respond to inquiries - at least mine.

    I was so ticked off that I did not take advantage of their $100 rebate this year.

    Two guys I shoot with dumped all their Federal hulls. If you have a "good" batch, and most are good, they are a good hull. If you have a bad batch, do not reload them.


    Don Verna
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.