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Selling gun face to face

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by SONO MAN, Jul 13, 2010.

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  1. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Hello everyone. If I am selling my trap gun to someone from another state and we are meeting face to face no dealers involved, what do I need to do? I am from NJ and the buyer is from NY state. Thanks for you input.

    Peter
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    GET CASH
     
  3. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Beside the cash, what else?

    Peter
     
  4. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If you bought or acquired it through an FFL, I'd have a FFL transfer it. Actually I'd use an FFL no matter what.......
    No matter what you do,, be sure to CYA.
     
  5. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Yes, but we are meeting face to face.
     
  6. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Write up invoices for sure, could take a photo of the people involved if you don't know them.

    JT
     
  7. Rugershooter123

    Rugershooter123 TS Member

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    On long guns, there are not as restrictive. You can sell FTF across state lines. I would get a copy of the buyer's DL and they should ask for yours. It is the same as gun show sells among private ind's. If they live in NY City there may be some restrictions, but not so much on trap shotguns. Magazine and barrel lengths are the 2 main issues. You shotgun should not be an issue.
    If you are still nervous, the FFL way is another option. You could transfer the shotgun to a local FFL and the buyer could make the transfer through him completing the 4473 form. It would cost you in the $25 to $35 range to complete this transaction in most shops.
    This is general nationwide info on transfers. Check with a local dealer to make sure it applies to your local laws as NY & NJ have some of the tougher laws out there.
     
  8. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    By invoices you mean a piece of paper that has the buyer's name and DL info also the make, model and S# of the gun?

    Peter
     
  9. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Thanks Rugershooter.

    Peter
     
  10. boomer

    boomer TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    The fact is that those of us in NJ CANNOT sell a long gun face to face to ANYONE--EXCEPT another NJ resident who has a valid NJ Firearms ID card. The sale must go through an FFL to be legal. It's considered a felony. Now the odds of getting caught are slim and lot's of guys will just sell and hope for the best. Not me--ever! You run the risk of losing your right to own firearms if something happens and you get caught. Handguns are a different animal and you must have a purchasers permit for each and everyone as an NJ resident--and now it's only 1 a month. So, I recommend having a dealer do the transfer and then you are protected from any criminal or civil liability.
     
  11. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    NOTE: SUPERCEDED. SEE GARY WAALKES' POST BELOW, AND MY RESPONSE.

    These are my thoughts, and might not be founded in law. I feel it depends on the laws in your home state. If you are meeting FTF in your state, and you can legally sell a long gun, all you need is a bill of sale. If you are meeting in the buyer's state, that state law would be the controlling one.

    I wanted to buy a shotgun from my wife's uncle in Illinois. I had no FOID, nor time to get any kind of permit. If I could have made it across the IL border, I was most likely home free. He never would have been safe, as selling the gun to me in IL was not legal. I had him ship it to an FFL near my home, in NC.

    I reviewed a pamphlet on firearms laws in NC (my state), and there doesn't seem to be any prohibition for transferring a long gun, except the buyer has to be age 18 or older, and not known to be a felon, mentally unstable, etc.

    Danny
     
  12. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Thanks guys for all your inputs. I think I will use a dealer for the transfer.

    Peter
     
  13. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    I would take Boomer's advice. He's a dealer and has been for a number of years. Why take the risk?

    I would never sell a handgun w/o it going through a FFL dealer. I can tell you it is not a good feeling to get a call from BATF saying that a handgun you owned was used in a crime and they want to know who you transferred it to and when. Fortunately I had traded it in at an FFL dealer's shop and knew the aprox date and could furnish the dealers name and address.
     
  14. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    If you use an invoice get their info. with yours and both your and his signatures. Type and print two (or more) copies ahead of time. Names with addresses, gun description and serial number. It's not the people involved, it's CYA.

    Being NJ and NY, I would use an FFL transfer. I shot in NJ years ago and remember when they first restricted laws and technically made it illegal to bring an auto-loader over the border. I would be cautious.

    JT
     
  15. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    Make sure you call Cease Fire USA or your state chapter and have them send a witness when you sell the gun. Cease Fire chapters seem to be promoting government involvement of all firearms issues, tranactions, and situations.

    Recently our township passed a Cease Fire promoted regulation requiring residents to report lost or stolen weapons. Cease Fire said it was to prevent straw purchases. They forgot to mention that our township doesn't have any gun dealers. Oh.

    Of course, our elected commissioners did not ask - "how many transations are in our township now?"

    That would have led to the question -"how does a new Cease Fire regulation prevent something that isn't happening?" ha!

    js in PA
     
  16. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: Personally, I have purchased 2 shotguns face to face in USA and transported them myself to Canada

    Not legal....

    A Canadian on a visit of less then 90 days cannot take possession of a firearm, either purchased from a dealer or as result of private sale. Under no circumstances may you take possession of the firearm when in the states.

    All such sales (dealer or private) must go through an FFL. The FFL must ship the firearm to Canada or arrange to have it transported to the border.

    _____

    Purchasing a firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) to possess in the United States

    A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase a firearm from an FFL and take possession of the firearm in the United States. If you violate this prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 5 or 10 years of imprisonment, depending on the violation.

    ___


    Purchasing a firearm from a nonlicensee to possess in the United States

    A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase a firearm from a nonlicensee to possess in the United States. If you violate this prohibition,
    you could receive a maximum of 5 or 10 years of imprisonment, depending on the violation. If you have questions regarding possible exceptions to
    this prohibition, contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)

    ___

    Having a third party purchase a firearm for you from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) to possess in the United States

    If you are not eligable to purchase a firearm from an FFL to possess in the United States, you MAY NOT have someone who is eligible purchase one
    for you. If you violate this prohibition, both you and the person who purchases the firearm for you could receive a maximum of 5 or 10 years of
    imprisonment, depending on the violation.

    ---

    Nonimmigrant Aliens Purchasing Firearms and Ammunition in the United States

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-18.pdf
     
  17. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Guys, I am very thankful for all of your help.

    Peter
     
  18. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Have someone with you just to have a witness. Cash only. In a public area with camera's. Do write up a invoice just in case and have him sign it. With your info, his info, the price and the guns S#. Two copies. One for you and one for him. All of this is just in case.
     
  19. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    the real answer to your question - It is ILLEGAL to sell a gun to a person from another state without going through an FFL in the buyers state. Face to face has nothing to do with this. I will add a note of caution. Be aware that BATF is not above planting someone in a sting type operation. BATF does not care if the gun is a single shot target shotgun either.

    this is a summary - not a restatement of law - An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.
     
  20. SONO MAN

    SONO MAN TS Member

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    Thanks Gary. I told the guy that I ll only do the deal if it is through a dealer.

    Peter
     
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