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¿ Self DQ

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by goatskin, May 24, 2011.

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  1. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Shooting is a gentleman's sport, and if you are shooting in violation of a rule (say: you're shooting a 10ga, or a few flyer loads migrated into your pouch of 1oz loads by happenstance), you are expected to self-report and DQ, yes?

    What is the procedure & consequences?

    (I would assume that all sub-events shot would be 0/25, regardless if the sub-event was completed?)

    The thread on withdrawal and a comment by ... flargo? about seeing boxes of 1305fps AA SC in the trashcans after a big shoot has made me say, hmmmmm?

    Bob
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone ever seen ATA ammo rules enforced at a registered shoot? HMB
     
  3. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    We are required to shoot steel at our club, and some guys take the hulls from the factory steel and reload them with lead for use when they shoot at other area clubs. I've had at least one instance in which shoot management got worked up because they found hulls and boxes that were printed with something other than lead target load information.

    Keep in mind that just because you see a box that isn't legal that doesn't mean the shells that were in it were not.
     
  4. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    It is indeed a gentleman's sport. So, ask yourself, does the odd shell or using a 10ga give that person an unfair advantage? I think not. The only people who will fall into that category are not going to be regular Trap shooters.

    It's more than likely they won't even be at a registered shoot.

    There are plenty of people who try stuff like that when playing games like Annie Oakley or protection games. That will fall to personal integrity. You either have it or you don't.

    At a large shoot like the Grand, I would expect this to not be a problem either. This is one reason some shoots require that you buy the ammo there.
     
  5. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say the same thing as Scott. We use any kind of empty shell boxes that we have on hand to box our reloads.
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Scott, myself, personally, as long as my hearing protection is sufficient, I couldn't care less what the other guy is shooting, and part 2 to that is that I think velocity restrictions are asinine, but that is neither here nor there.

    them's the rules, and it's still a gentleman's sport.

    I wish I could remember flalargo(?) quote more precisely, but I think it was NEW empty box(S) of the 1305s - the ones that are clearly marked 'not legal for ATA trap'. slimy

    I'm still curious of the procedure and if there are further penalties other than 0-fer.

    Bob
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Also interesting is the fact that while the 1305 FPS shell are not legal for ATA. There is nothing in the rule that makes the boxes illegal!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. DanLee

    DanLee Member

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    AFAIK, the non-registered games such as Annie Oakley, Protection, Skrap, etc., have no written rules regarding ammunition. Ranges may--the most common being 3 drams, 1-1/8 oz shot, nothing larger than No. 7-1/2--in which case them's the rules. However, I see quite a few shooters shooting factory handicap and sporting clays shells, which theoretically exceed the speed limit, but management has never taken action against them.

    The size of the shot determines the safety zone. Since I'm not a gentleman and don't shoot ATA, I generally stick with the shot size limit and toss everything else out the window.

    Dan
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Bob:

    To take a shot at your question, the consequence of a DQ is generally the score is not counted at all. So, I'm not sure that you'd get stuck with zero's. There might be some exceptions to this, but that's what I'm going with at the moment.

    Further consequences - ATA could suspend you if it got to that point. I'd prefer there was some discretion implemented by management in these sorts of things. Clear cases of someone trying to cheat, deal with more severely and refer to ATA.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The Ammo Police should be on patrol at registered shoots. They should take one shell from each competitor to be analyzed at the Ammo Laboratory. Competitors using non conforming ammo will be DQed. HMB
     
  11. Seitz373

    Seitz373 Member

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    The only people I've experienced who would try to cheat are not competitive anyways, hence their need to cheat in the first place. If a shooter needs to shoot faster shells to break an 88 rather than 87, I feel bad for them. Anyone who shoots alot and is competitive is usually playing by the rules
     
  12. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I know its a hypothetical question, but how would you accidentally shoot a 10ga. at a ATA shoot? I have never ever accidentally shot the wrong gun or wrong ammo. If you would make such a mistake, it shows lack of attention in which guns require all of yours. This is the way deadly accidents happen i.e. not paying attention. Just say'n...............
     
  13. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    HMB......A friend was at a registered shoot and beat out a guy in a shoot off and then the guy complained that my friend was using illegal ammo. The shoot management took a shell from him and took it apart and weighed each component and verified everything was legal. By the way he was using NEW Remington STS's.

    Says a lot for some peoples character.
     
  14. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    On the subject of ammo checks. I had my shells checked by an ATA offical at a Vandalia Grand several years back. He checked the entire squad before we took the line to assure we all had new ATA purchased ammo (we all did).

    Usually in the second 100 of singles back in Vandalia you would see obviously reloaded hulls on the ground. Apparently those shooters missed a couple and were out of the race after the first 100. They decide to keep the mandatory purchased new shells for later and risk burning a few reloads.

    Have not seen an ammo check for handicap shells at Sparta, but that does not mean it could not happen.

    DQ means your entire score is removed for that event. At the Grand they have a rubber stamp with red ink for marking the DQ's on the paper score sheets.
     
  15. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    likes-to-shoot---You got that right. Sore loosers most likely.
     
  16. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    870, that was what I was curious abt. I looked at the rules (but JUST looked, I didn't scrub them), and I didn't find germane language.

    Years ago, my son (and a couple of other shooters) took a self-DQ in international, when they shot last year's 28gm bullets in this year's 24gm world, and that was it ... they just didn't shoot the first day's 75 targets, but international and ATA are different animals.

    On a GOOD day, I'm an E or F class shooter (as opposed to M, N or my usual O), so I <i>could</i> shoot 3" 2oz and gain maybe 1½ birds - worth none of the expense, brutality or laughter.

    Matt, except for that diameter thing, it's pretty easy to make ATA-legal 10ga bullets, and I have a 10ga gun that is actually smaller & lighter than my 12ga wildfowl piece. More fun to shoot, too.

    Bob
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Not burst anyone bubble or be a wet blanket. According to the rules a shell challenge is perfectly legal.


    G. GUNS AND AMMUNITION (pages 49 and 50 in the online rulebook)

    5. Shoot Management, ATA official(s) or any contestant may challenge the load of any other contestant. Any challenge shall be initiated so as to not disrupt the harmony of the shoot or interfere with other contestants not involved with the challenge. On receipt of a challenge management or ATA official(s) shall obtain a shell or shells from the challenged party, and if after examination, management or ATA official(s) find the contestant violated the ATA rule, he/she may be disqualified. Any such initiated challenges, determined to be abusive in nature, will be referred to the ATA Executive Committee for disciplinary action.

    So unless the challenger is abusive they are within their rights.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Bob.........No one said that they aren't within their rights.

    But don't you find it kinda funny nothing is said till they lose a shoot off. LOL
     
  19. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    How many shoots have the requisite shell component weighing devices handy?


    I use many diffrent boxes for my 1200 fps 1 1/8s. Some of the boxes state the contents exceed ATA specs--go ahead and challenge mine.


    Either cheat, or be honest. All the rest is BS and conjecture.

    Shut up and shoot. The best will win no matter what's in the chamber.

    I just love the 20yd shooters that shoot virgin Nitros!


    Guy Babin
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Not particularly as I know a fellow that has a gun that barks so loud with standard 1150 loads that I have seen people shrink away from him when he calls for the target.

    Yet most of the time I would shoot his shells (at least his shells for registered) for games not so much.

    You also said after the shoot offs, I would much rather it was after than just before!!!!! I don't really think that using an existing rule should be a basis for judgment of his character or sportsmanship. If it becomes so then why would anyone report possible rule breakers. They would all be afraid to open their mouths for fear of ridicule.

    Bob Lawless
     
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