1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Second Amendment Explanation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rick Barker, Jul 26, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    14,399
    In Sunday's Denver Post, a columnist explained the second amendment in such a way, I thought some might want to see the highlights:

    Since anti gun people often argue that gun rights don't apply to "People," but to militia, the writer says they should look at the 4th amendment which says "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated..." could hardly mean a "thing."

    The Federal Militia Act of 1792 defines the militia as "each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years under the age of forty-five years..."
    "Every citizen...shall...provide himself with a good musket or firelock... or with a good rifle," along with powder, shot, knapsack and the like.
    Further, the guns and related gear could not be seized to satisfy unpaid debt or taxes.

    And here is the best......the defination of "regulated" as used in the 2nd Amendment and relative to its definiation in the late 1700's meant "Of troups: properly disciplined" per Oxford dictionary, which was before Websters. In other words, when the 2nd Amendment was written, the work regulated meant that militia-men were supposed to be proficient with firearms, since that was a big part of their "discipline."

    The writers' conclusion was "there's no reasonable argument that the Founders wanted the government to have the power to outlaw private gun ownership - especially not when one of the nation's first laws made it a requirement."
     
  2. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Ojai CA
    Rick: I recently sent Lis Wheil of O'Reillys show a letter on this very subject. She said "a militia is a group of armed people",,,true but not complete.

    The media's current push is to evolve the word into meaning "Right Wing Psycho's with guns, or para-military groups operating outside the law".

    This is a blatant lie! and needs to be corrected on a large scale.

    Your exposure of the definition of "well regulated" is a significant part of the puzzle and brings clarity to the meaning of "militia" as used in the 2nd Amendment,,,

    Defintion #1 in the Websters Dictionary states Militia: "part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency."

    This could be construed now to mean groups like the National Guard or Reserve units of the armed forces.

    Defintion #2 states,,, "the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service"

    In the context of today,, With male/female armed services now the norm, it could be expected to mean,,,, "every able-bodied citizen"

    So in effect, every able-bodied citizen is part of the militia! and they should be "well regulated" IE well trained.

    So personally, I think training should begin about grade 4or5 for girls and boys. Bet the crime rate would go right to nil.

    The problem with interpretation, is that when you don't fully understand the words you shouldn't be interpreting. This is a good lesson for certain members of SOCTUS, as 4 of them clearly either have no idea or are just being contrary.

    The most salient point of "understanding" is, "if there is complete understanding of any given subject by all parties involved, then there can be no arguement".

    Conflict only arises from mis-understanding. All conflicts since the beginning of time can be traced back to one or more mis-understood words!

    We must ask ourselves when obvious mis-interpretation is in play what are the actual motives invloved. I can think of no case where a deliberate lie has benefited the masses. It most often is used to control the masses.

    The possibility of benevolent control of the masses in a free society seems unlikely.

    just my .02!

    Randy
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    The Second Amendment is what ultimately protects all the other Amendments and the Constitution. An armed populace is the ultimate check and balance on a political system that is designed to be full of checks and balances. Stripping Second Amendment rights from citizens puts all other rights in jeopardy, and is a crucial step of a tyrannical government.
     
  4. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Ojai CA
    Brian: Good point!

    But the next question is "why would you want to take away those rights?"

    I don't think they actually want us to be a better society, I think they just want to be able to control the society.

    But we all know "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and I think we are seeing how that works right now in Washington.

    Randy
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,648
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    If the free people don't get on the ball right now, they will lose their freedom.

    We have a health care bill with hundreds of things in it not related to health care.

    We have a financial regulation bill that is the same.

    The handwriting is on the wall.

    HM
     
  6. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,398
    Location:
    S-E PA
    Here is a version of the amendment from an early draft of the Bill of Rights (originally there were twenty amendments which were condensed into the ten we know).

    "That the people have a Right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the Community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the Civil power."


    Note that in this version the word "state" is NOT capitalized - this is also true of the second amendment, thus the word 'state' can be inferred to mean 'condition' (e.g., state of grace or confusion) rather than sovereign territory (e.g., Delaware, Pennsylvania).

    Food for thought...
     
  7. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,647
    Following is a short snippet from our Declaration of Independence. The wisdom, like the truths it references, is self-evident...


    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    Yours in liberty, sissy
     
  8. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    A clear meaning of "well-regulated" can be discerned by speaking with a Drill Instructor in boot camp or a Naval gunner engineer.

    Battleships need to "regulate" the sighting mechanism with the "lay" of the barrel aligning/elevating mechanism so that the sighting is regulated to the pointing.

    The D.I. tells the recruits to regulate their weapon sights to become an effective soldier.

    Well drilled is the ability to march, about face, etc. like manual of arms.

    Well disciplined is being able to hold fire until you see the whites of their eyes, even if they are stepping on your toe.

    Well regulated means you have aligned or adjusted your sights to shoot true. Remember in the old days there was no such thing as adjustable sights. You needed to "drift" a blade in the dovetail, file the notch or blade height and width, and every gun was a manual fine tune to get it right for the individual shooter.

    Modern language would say that "well-regulated" meant straight shooting. Read it this way:

    A straight-shooting militia being necessary...

    That makes the most common sense of any explanation, and any other arcane word-chasing is moot.

    Why do you suppose that they had regular shooting as an event after church meetings and such- to verify no misalignment was present due to a sight or blade being struck against a branch or similar incident. Test and verify- test and verify. Practice, practice. Be ready before the enemy comes to call.

    Kirby
     
  9. BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD

    BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    445
    I hope they would not be confused by this statement:"The Constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." Thomas Jefferson .... makes sence to me. There would be a lot less crap going on if more honest citizens were carring a firearm, at all times. Jim Bisogno
     
  10. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,605
    To be a Liberal you must believe:

    Right: something that can be denied
    People: something other than you and me
    Keep: something other than to have in one's home
    Bear: something other than to carry
    Arms: something other than a handgun
    Shall not be infringed: should and can be prohibited
     
  11. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,715
    In the typical way that meanings have changed over time, and the leftists doing it on purpose, the meaning of REGULATED has come to mean controlled from external, mainly government means. The use of the term well regulated in the second ammendment however, actually refers to control from within. An analogy would be a thermostat. An externally controlled thermostat would be an on-off switch that is controlled externally by us and our perception of comfort. When we are cold we turn the switch and the heat on. After a while we get too hot and we turn the switch back off. By the time we switch it we are already too hot or too cold. It isn't very efficient. Kind of like the way the government runs things, always behind and terribly inefficient.
    An internally regulated thermostat, such as a wall thermostat however, is a model of efficiency and self regulation. It is INTERNALLY, or SELF regulating. It does just what needs to be done right when it needs doing. Like a well practiced, well trained militia it knows what to do and when to do it. It requires little or no input from outside. It is INTERNALLY knowledgable, capable, and instructed. The key concept is INTERNALLY regulating, not externally regulated.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

second amendment explanation