1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

SCTP Nationals

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by roger8918, Jul 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    So what did everyone think about the new scoring system at the SCTP Nationals this year?
     
  2. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Roger, I like the scoring system, I feel it gives every athlete the opportunity to participate and help their team. I love the fact that all members of the winning teams will receive medals.

    Many feel it favors large teams but that was not the case at all at least in Varsity where a single High School 5-man squad broke 979x1000 to win the gold.

    On the downside, I think the rules change should have been discussed earlier in the season with the state advisors and communicated better with the coaches before being implemented.

    Let's see how long it takes for the balance of the team awards to be sent out..... I hope not as long as the award ceremonies took. All I will say on that subject.

    Not sure what happened with the HOA awards, we left before they were announced.

    Hope your kids had a good experience, we all need to remember they are why we were there!!!!

    SW
     
  3. sjmercer1

    sjmercer1 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    I feel the rule changes should've been discussed long before 3:00 p.m. on the day before we were scheduled to shoot! We are a small high school team that entered the "high school" division and have practiced and squaded our kids before we got to Sparta. If a kid on a squad has a bad day-- well that's the way it goes. He/she shouldn't be kicked out and replaced by a kid that had a great day. We aren't concerned about the collegiate rules--- the kids can deal with the college rules when they are in college!

    Isn't picking kids for the "club" division kind of the same? It is basicly an all-star team. Picking the 5 best kids from an area(or more) and having them compete.

    I can deal with rule changes if given more than a 17 hour notice before we shoot. And if you bring more kids the better your chances for a better score! Sounds to me like the clubs that have the numbers and the $$$$$ are going to do better.

    Sounds like we want to turn this into high school football, baseball,and basketball. Only the best count or play. Are we losing the whole concept of high school trap shooting= to be safe and have fun!?
     
  4. TD1958

    TD1958 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    596
    Does anyone have the results with the winning teams listed? Thanks, Tim
     
  5. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    I believe that the scores are available at the link above.
     
  6. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,308
    When we got there thrusday a man at the desk told us there would not be any shoot off this year, we are going by reverse run to get the winners.. when we got to the awards ceremony the shoot offs began..
     
  7. k810329

    k810329 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Unfortunately we had nothing but negatives associated with this years nationals.We were mislead on several occassions and im not real impressed with Russ Arnold,he lied to my face and tried to turn it around and make it my fault.Im not sure if we will compete next year.I really didnt like the new scoring system even though it helped a couple of our squads.
     
  8. dalog

    dalog Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    143
    Have any of you actually looked at the results?

    StonwallRacing,The Burlington HS Demons had 19 shooters in the Senior Varsity Division to cull their 5 man squad from.

    #2 had 26 (+3 more registered that apparently didn't shoot.)

    #3 had 17 to pull from

    #4 Had 11

    #5 Arnold Junior Shooters got there with only 6 to pick from

    #7 9

    #8 5

    #9 5(+1 that didn't shoot)

    #10 13

    Now you know how to win a National Championship in the SCTP, Bring 4 squads, throw them up on the wall and see what sticks.

    The way I see it, they are just after the $ 68 bucks a head and this arrangement encourages bringing the kitchen sink. (But boy don't those attendance #'s look GOOD! at least for now)

    If left to develop it will ultimately encourage only very large teams and totally discourage small teams. I have worked too hard trying to help local High Schools get these teams started to see this crap run them off.

    And on the subject of the High School teams there, what a joke that trophy presentation turned into! Oh, you didn't see it, well it was at MIDNIGHT so yea, you were probably on your way home by then. Handed out the trophy's to the wrong teams and then actually left out the Houston H.S. Trap Team from Tennessee who tied with the team they gave the 3rd place hardware to. Final listings even has Houston listed as 13th above the other at 14th.

    Yup, this is looking less and less like it's all about the kids and more and more like it's all about the $$$$$$ (and someones EGO).
     
  9. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Dalog..... Better get your facts straight before you make a post like that!


    Look it up.... BHS DEMONS #1 - SQUAD #244, Bank 11A

    The score of 979 was all shot by a single squad comprised of Sophomores Jordan Hintz (197), Christian Jensen (196), and Myles Walker (196), Junior Ethan Kerr (196), and Senior Adam Tuinstra (194).

    During the first 100 targets on Friday, the squad had rounds of 120, 123, 124 and 122 to finish with a three-bird advantage over the Gateway Claybusters of Missouri. Hintz and Jensen each tallied 99 to lead the way.

    They came back on Saturday afternoon with a score of 490 with rounds of 123, 121, 125, and 121 to seal the victory. Walker ran his first 100-straight to lead the squad on Saturday.

    As for the money part, the Burlington Conservation Club donated $2000 towards entries and everything else was paid for by the dedicated parents of these kids and the fundraisers we spent dozens of hours doing ourselves. We don't have any big $$ corporate sponsors.

    We have spent seven years building our High School program and have helped start at least 7 other High School programs in Southeastern Wisconsin.

    It doesn't take money... it takes dedicated coaches, parents and young athletes who are determined to make it to the podium.

    Our kids practice three times a week (weather permitting) and have developed a bond together and all have the desire to win within the rules. We teach safety first, teamwork and sportsmanship second and winning third.

    No matter what team you bring or how you run your program, it's the kids who have to pull the trigger and break the target.

    Done with my rant.....

    I will agree, the awards were terribly planned and executed. AND I WAS THERE! I watched my son give back an award he was given after being announced as the first place High School team. No, it wasn't fun for parents or kids.

    Perry A. Hintz
    Father of Jordan
    (aka. Stonewall Racing)
     
  10. dalog

    dalog Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    143
    Stonewall, only information available I can find is the online scores which were set up to automatically combine the top 5 scores for each "Team". There is no way to tell from that system which "Squads" actually shot together or which were assembled.

    If those kids were a true squad then absolutely congratulations to them. And sorry for any implication otherwise, Truly didn't know and can't tell from what is published. I apologize to the kids, they earned it.

    But, I stand by my concerns that this "New" system will only set up the scenario of teams either getting bigger or getting out.

    As for the $$$$$ (and the EGO) , I am referring to the SCTP, not you.
     
  11. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    2011 SCTP National Champions. Left to right: Coach Chet Tuinstra, Senior Adam Tuinstra (194), Sophomore Jordan Hintz (197), Sophomore Christian Jensen (196), Coach/SCTP North Central Director Tom Wondrash, Sophomore Myles Walker (196), Coach Joe Ebbers, Junior Ethan Kerr (196), Head Coach Denis Sommers, Coach Jeff Kojis.

    On the line, live and in person.... BHS #1 (SCTP Squad 244) five dedicated young athletes.

    Thanks for the accolades, it was the the kids who earned it.

    I am in favor of the rules, we run our High School conference that way and many more kids get the opportunity to see their name on the website and contribute to their team. I do have "concerns" also, but have seen the concept work on a smaller scale.

    To set the record straight, I feel this scoring change should not have been made this season as a change this dramatic should be reviewed by the state advisors and coaches PRIOR to the season starting.

    Despite the problems we will be back, because I am confident the correct changes will be made to not have this happen again.

    SW
     
  12. dalog

    dalog Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    143
    SW, Hope you are right about this working out but my comments were based on comments and conversations I had down the line. Either getting out or the one about bringing 4 squads was a direct quote from a coach from a state I won't mention, but a quote none the less, and I believe he meant it.
     
  13. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Those conversations were real and I overheard many or participated in many of them myself.

    There is a board of trustees and some very powerful backers who saw what we saw and those are the people who can make a difference.

    A small program or single squad can compete if they are dedicated to it.

    Good luck with your kids and your program.

    SW
     
  14. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,308
    Congrats to BHS!! Job well done!
     
  15. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    I confronted Arnold on Saturday about what he had done and I needed to walk away to keep from doing something I would have regretted. That guy is a real piece of work. He flat out lied to me, and I quote "we are not changing anything, we are only adding a few new awards". I threw away $198 because I only had 3 shooters shooting skeet, 1 Varsity and 2 JV.

    This was more of a disaster then you could ever imagine. I would like to be the first on record to call for Arnold's resignation! We really need to do something about what happened and take back the SCTP from this idiot. The Potterfield's are great people but I feel they have entrusted their money to the wrong person.

    As for the kids, they were heartbroken when they found out that their squads were not counted. It was difficult looking them in the eye and saying "sorry, they changed the rules" I wanted Arnold to sit down and explain what he did to every single one of them.
     
  16. dalog

    dalog Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    143
    Roger,

    I wondered about that, LOTS of fragmented squads on the results page.

    Teams with 3 varsity and 2 JV, 4 Varsity and 1 JV, etc but no full squads.

    No consolation but I would bet you are no where near alone on that deal.
     
  17. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Any idea why would those two JV shooters not be able to be "bumped-up" to fill the squad a Varsity squad?

    If we are doing this for the kids.... why not give those kids a chance??

    SW
     
  18. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    SW...in the past we had just added our JV shooters to our Varsity squads and they were automatically bumped up. With the new system that didn't happen so now I have one Varsity shooter and two JV shooters competing against teams of three. Just another reason why the new rules totally favor the larger teams.

    Arnold told me all the new scoring information was the program, the program that was sent out 19 days before I was to leave for Sparta. This guy is an idiot if he thinks I can start putting together my teams trip to Sparta 19 days before I'm to leave. He has no idea what it takes to run a team...does anyone know if he has ever run a team?

    By the way, does anyone have the High Over All standings? That was another disaster and lie. Arnold came up with some asinine point system. Why not just add up the scores and call it done? He told me that would be to hard to do. Give me the scores and Excel and it would be done in an hour, max.
     
  19. k810329

    k810329 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Any word on the HOA?
     
  20. team henges

    team henges TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    110
    i think it was pretty much bs because they just took the best 5 shooters off of each team that were in the same age group and put them together. This seems like they are just taking the best shooters and not giving the actual squads a chance at winning anything. In my case our squad had 4 jv shooters and one intermediate advance shooter due to not having enough jv kids. So now our squad is out of the running to win anything at all because we dont have enough kids in the same age group. This is even worse because our coach squaded us after the Missouri SCTP state shoot in the same squads that we had then, before the rules had been changed. So this shoot was completely pointless and a waste of the whole teams 68 dollars a piece to shoot non registered birds. And i thought that it was supposed to be for all of the kids to have a chance and not just the best of the best? And for the teams that drove half way acrosst the country to shoot this shoot, wonder how they feel. They drove for 15 hours, spent tons of money and now some cant shoot the AIM shoot because they spent their money on the SCTP and get there and find out that they dont even have a chance of winning anything???!!! I mean come on, you change the rules after the state qualifiers and after most squads had registered for this shoot. pure BS
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page
sctp nationals trap rules
,
sctp trap shppting
,
what is a sctp award
,
what is a sctp trap award
,
what is the age group for sctp
,

which highschool is the best in sctp trapshooting