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SCTP Nationals at Sparta

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by todddietrich, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    We left out around 1:30 pm as none of our kids were in shoot offs. Today our varsity squad posted all 97's. The last I checked that puts us at 11th place out of around 300 squads.
    Yesterday there were 25 100's out around 1600 kids. I heard there were 8 kids that went 200 straight today. I cant confirm it, the shootsctp.org web site is down.

    It has been 90-95 degrees and sunny all week, hot but managable. Our head coach just called me, there are 8 shoot offs that were scheduled for this afternoon. Around 4pm, I heard thunder. It's raining buckets right now! I guess we will see if the kids are waterproof now. Good Luck shooters!

    Todd / Illinois
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Wow, congrats on your squad shooting so good. Nothing wrong with a squad of 97's. Also sounds as if they had a great turnout. There are certainly some talented young shooters.
     
  3. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    Even with the heat, I didn't hear any complaints from the visiting folks out at the shooting complex. Everyone I talked too, commented on what a great facility we have.

    Todd
     
  4. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    986 is top on the Varsity board...

    There is plenty of talent coming up through the SCTP.

    SW
     
  5. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    I just looked up the numbers from last years AIM shoot. The attendance was 1260 shooters for the singles. The silly part are the number of teams that refuse to shoot both programs.

    Todd
     
  6. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Very few if any can afford to shoot both programs.

    The SCTP rewards their teams with endowment money from the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation. What does AIM do for their teams to help cover costs?

    SW
     
  7. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    SW,
    You make a very valid point. I am going to make a few assumptions, which are usually wrong, but here goes.
    With the SCTP and AIM shoots a few weeks apart, you would really need to be committed to travel to both. If the parents shoot the Grand, the kids shoot both SCTP and AIM, you would be looking at the better part of a month in motels and resturants.
    The ATA does benefit from SCTP. If a kid starts shooting at an early age, they would be more likely to continue shooting later in life. After SCTP, if a person wants to continue trap shooting, the ATA is the next step. There is alot of talk of retaining shooters after AIM and SCTP, but I think thats just a matter of priorities of time and money.
    The average age of an ATA member is older due to disposable income. The cost of recreational shooting can be prohibitive to someone starting out in life. Parents are picking up the tab for the kids. They will be back, just not for a few years.

    What can be done...

    If there was more time between the SCTP and AIM/Grand it would be easier for the working parents to take vacation days. If the SCTP or AIM/Grand was held concurrent to a National holiday, I think it would help attendance. I personally would rather shoot shotguns than bottle rockets.
    If the ATA would register some SCTP targets, a kid might be more inclined to shoot AIM.
    If the AIM program would supply or deeply discount shells used during the event, I think you could increase numbers.

    I realize the logistics of making any of these things happen are pretty deep. There are probably just as many reasons to just let it be.

    regards,

    Todd / Illinois
     
  8. tachyon

    tachyon Member

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    SCTP had 1,883 shooters at Sparta this year. This was our first year since the last year in Vandalia (2005). The meet was run with great efficiency, the targets were great, problems were handled quickly (we had a voice pull quit and it was replaced within 5 minutes).

    The results were almost live until late Saturday when they took things down for a while. Big thunderstorm with lots of lightning slowed the shootoffs but all in all they did a great job handling the unexpected.
    It was nice to have all the results online the next day.

    Our girls (I teach in an all girls school) were a little off their game the first day. The second day they did well. Since this was the girls first year they were in the junior varsity senior division. One of our girls placed first another third and a third fifth in the ladies category.

    While both AIM and SCTP have some great things going for them and some significant problems we chose SCTP for a couple of reasons. (shooting both was never an option due to cost and focus). SCTP has a true high school champion. AIM is focused on clubs and winds up with a lot of cherry picked teams. SCTP has both club teams and true high school teams. In Nebraska, our state shoot (neither AIM or SCTP) has more than 2,000 kids competing for their school (or 4-H). Our kids are used to shooting for their school and SCTP is the better match. The other is that AIM uses a lewis system for awards. While Lewis is probably great for gambling it is not OK for awards. I would hate to go home knowing that one girl with a 189 is champion by pick of the lewis division while another girl with a 197 is a "glad you could come" participant.

    Bottom line is that competition is good for the sport. Both AIM and SCTP need to be responsive to their audience since teams now have choices.
     
  9. dalog

    dalog Member

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    Tachyon, you make some great points about the SCTP having a High School division, something AIM should look at.

    You might be interested in knowing that AIM used the "Lewis System" only one year, last year. The program this year indicates we are back to Class Champions again, a move I applaud.
     
  10. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    That's great having all those kids shooting. The future of the sport.
     
  11. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Todd,

    The SCTP has partnered with NSSA and NSCA and pays target fees to both to register the targets at SCTP State and National events. The SCTP tried to get together a couple years back but the ATA seems to just want's the fee's... You can't get without giving back.

    Midway USA is doing an awful lot to support the SCTP because the Potterfield's have a vision to see a trap team in every High School in America. If all the SCTP teams take advantage of the Scholastic Shooting Trust endowment program, they can earn tens of thousands of dollars to support their teams and assist parents in covering costs of attending these shoots. By just showing up at many SCTP shoots you earn endowment funds. There are numerous raffles set-up with industry supporters partnered with the SST to put thousands more into teams bank accounts.

    What does AIM do for their teams?

    SCTP attendance went from 1557 athletes in 2012 to 1,883 in 2013. That's a 21% INCREASE.

    The SCTP went 5-deep with their awards this year, I head nothing but positives about that. IMO, the Lewis scoring system is, well... It looks like AIM is going back to ATA Classes, I do like that much better.

    I could not find the AIM Grand attendance from last year, where did you look that up? If I remember the last time I looked carefully AIM had included coaches and parents in their attendance numbers?? Curious to see how much the AIM Grand grows this year?

    Any program that gets and keeps kids involved is good in so many ways, I wish there was only one program, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

    SW
     
  12. Bob Butler

    Bob Butler Active Member

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    I am glad to see both organizations bringing new shooters to the sport and the clubs.
    I am also blown away by some of the numbers coming out of the mid west at the high school programs.
    Living in a State on the tip of the spear when it comes to gun control I see the need to take this very seriously.
    We have started a team at two clubs in my local area with SCTP. The endowment money is the primary factor followed by the very active participation in the State of Ma next door. The coach training and insurance are also a help. Ma being so active gives our kids a place to attend shoots of size while our state program develops.
    There is very little youth participation in my State and that needs to change or we are not going to be happy with the results.
    I applaud any one who takes up the hard work to run a youth team or even just take a kid shooting.
    You will not hear a complaint out of me about any member of the shooting sports that is working on getting more kids to these games. Doing so is nuts.
    Our athletes attended the political rallies and hearings at our State House this winter to show support for their sport.
    They are a great asset to the cause and I hope to see many more in the future as adults take on the challenge of preserving our heritage, whatever program fits their needs.
    It only works with dedicated volunteers and they are a huge requirement to success.
    My compliments go out to all who help to run these events and make it happen. Its not easy to do well. It takes a real team to make a big shoot happen.

    Bob
     
  13. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    SW,
    I did a search for the scores and looked at total entries. I will try and post a link, if I can find it again.

    Todd
     
  14. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    We travel to many gun clubs across the country. There are many ATA shoots that organize a fund raiser to benefit AIM youth shooting.
    The Potterfield's have stepped up to promote SCTP and we all applaud them, however, keep in mind that the money they donate is held in trust and the kids get to access only the dividends from the account. I do agree that the kids should be working to build this fund, which they are.
    It's too bad that the two programs can't be combined so everyone benefits, instead of dividing the resources and efforts. Both programs have positive/negative points,it would be the kids who gain if the best of both worlds come come together.
     
  15. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    SW,
    Here are last years results.

    Karla,
    I agree, it would be great to see a combined championship. The stumbling blocks I see are the non registered targets from SCTP and AIM basing everything on individual scores. SCTP also shoots Skeet and Sporting.

    After to talking to some of the other SCTP teams, trap is not their primary focus.

    We want to see all of our kids succeed, but if the SCTP squads are not based on schools or local teams, they become much less impressive. It would come down to who could recruit the best team.

    regards,

    Todd
     
  16. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Karla,

    Most of the fundraising programs through the Midway Foundation have a direct component to the team with matching funds going into the endowment accounts. Right now, you can have a Winchester SX3 raffle where $4,000 worth of tickets are sold with the team keeping $2,000 for direct operating expenses and $2,000 going to the endowment fund. Then Midway matches 3 to 1 making an $8,000 total contribution to the fund.

    Many of the larger Invitationals, State, Regional and Nationals all have endowment funds available. Teams can earn $3,000 just for showing up and more for placing in the events. If you team travels to 3-4 events and places in each tournament you can earn upwards of $50,000 in a season. That translates to $2,500 direct to the team next season.

    Teams are allowed to apply for a grant of 5% of the total in their endowment fund each year. You only have to earn the funds once and they keep coming back every year as the fund continues to grow.

    Our team would not be able to bring a group of 40 kids to the Nationals without this program. It's one of the main reasons we shoot SCTP. I also prefer the team focus of the SCTP. I won't get too deep, this is not the time or place.

    Todd, the High School Division is there for that very reason and the SCTP recognizes those programs with separate awards. I thought this year was best in the six years we have gone especially with awards going five places deep.

    I also went through the 2012 AIM 47-page "Results by Squad" and I only count 920 shooters.

    There is more than just the competition... We need to remember these are YOUTH DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS that happen to use a shotgun as a vehicle to teach safety, teamwork, leadership and responsibility. If they enjoy their time in these programs it will make the shooting sports a lifelong activity.

    I had as much enjoyment watching one of our young lades shoot an 85 which was her all time high as I did watching our Varsity squad, the smiles last along time.

    SW
     
  17. tachyon

    tachyon Member

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    According to the ATA December minutes, "The AIM Grand Championship resulted in a decrease in entries from 1021 shooters in 2011 to 836 shooters in 2012."

    The SCTP shoots trap, skeet and sporting clays. Teams can compete in one or all three. There is an overall winner in each division based on your scores in all three events. One of the nice things of the meet was that your scores online realtime updates as scores were entered.

    The Scholastic Pistol Program (SPP) was run concurrent with the SCTP meet. It is a rimfire and 9mm event based on time to shoot steel plates. It was fun to watch. My understanding is that it is under the same umbrella as SCTP but has its own director etc.

    Changing from a Lewis type system to a class system based on 400 targets is a good move by AIM. I think they have 4-H and FFA team championship as well. A true high school division would be a good move by them.

    When the split between SCTP and the ATA first happened I thought it was not a good thing. Now I am not so sure. The groups are now somewhat in competition. They need to listen to their audience and respond. The SCTP coaches meeting at Sparta was interesting as it seemed they were really interested in our ideas.
     
  18. dalog

    dalog Member

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    Good discussion, a couple thoughts. The statistics page on the SCTP site lists participation for this years shoot at 572 registered for Skeet, 520 for Sporting Clays and 1,565 for Trap. Easy to see where the majority of participants are shooting, good for trapshooting.

    As for AIM, as discussed they are going back to Classes this year (lesson learned?) and they are adding Handicap and Doubles to the mix. I wouldn't bet on either of those amounting to much just yet but again, I believe a step in the right direction.

    Finally, the total listed of 1,565 SCTP trap shooters equates to 313,000 NON registered targets. By SCTP rule, you must have shot your state shoot to be eligible, now not all of those are 200 bird shoots but the number of targets shot that are not registered is substantial.
     
  19. tachyon

    tachyon Member

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    Almost all high school trapshooting in Nebraska is non registered. Between the Eastern Cornhusker Trapshooting Conference and the Mid Nebraska Conference they throw about 140,000 targets a week for their six week season. ECTC has about 1,100 weekly competitors and Mid Nebraska has about 300. That is more than 840,000 non registered targets. The state meet is sponsored by Nebraska Game and Parks. More than 2,000 shooters, about 300,000 target for state. More than 1 million non registered targets a year.

    In Nebraska both SCTP and AIM are afterthoughts by most schools. The Nebraska ATA state shoot had 364 total in their largest event, the Singles Championship. Both the champion and ladies champion came from the ECTC but most of the youth shooters do not find the ATA as attractive.

    One of the things being considered by SCTP is adding doubles and handicap. There are issues with handicap yardage, particularly for teams as SCTP is team oriented.
     
  20. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Last time I checked, trapshooting is not a team sport. It is fun to shoot with a squad of friends, but somewhere,someday, kids need to learn to excel on their own. Other sports do require team efforts, our daughters played basketball from elementary through college so I do appreciate team sports. For many kids, being a part of a larger group is just something they can't handle, especially youths with special needs. We have worked with many young shooters who became involved in shooting because it offered them a place to compete without the pressure to fit into a team.
     
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